Parallax issue with Nightforce scopes.

[Alexander-M]

A search for “parallax” in this forum results in a number of threads, but unfortunately none address my specific issue, so he it goes –

I was never able to completely eliminate horizontal parallax with my Nightforce NXS 12x42 that I have on my Savage 12 F-T/R, and the NF tech with whom I spoke, early in 2014, told me that it was impossible to completely eliminate the horizontal parallax. The vertical parallax is zero, by the way.

The horizontal parallax I was seeing was about 1/2-MOA at almost any distance by slightly moving my head laterally. I unsuccessfully tried to get rid of it, so I lived with it and tried to get around it by placing my head on the stock in the same location every time. But it is rather time consuming and I suspect that I may be off at least 1/4-MOA from time to time.

This year I bought a NF Competition for my new F-T/R rifle, and have the same problem with it. I called NF again, but this time the tech told me that I should be able to adjust it to practically eliminate all parallax. He also said that it would take a combination of adjusting the eyepiece and the parallax knob to eliminate the parallax. He said that it was touchy.

Well, try as I may, I still have the same (~1/2-MOA) horizontal movement of the crosshairs with just a slight lateral movement of my head. And again I have been trying to place my head in the exact location for every shot, but I still believe that I should be able to adjust my Nightforce scopes to eliminate all parallax.

I have other, less expensive scopes with which I do not experience any parallax at all. Just to make sure that I was not imagining things, I went to the range a couple of days ago with my venerable DPMS LR 308, which has a Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56, and it is absolutely parallax free. This is an excellent scope, by the way, and I wish they offered it in higher magnification.

Can you offer any suggestions to help me try to eliminate this parallax issue with my Nightforce Competition?

Thank you for your time!

Nando

 

[hogpatrol]

Just curious, are you wearing any type of glasses, either prescription or plain shooting type?

 

[M-61]

Maybe:

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Parallax.asp

 

[dkhunt14]

I find to get completely rid of Parallax I need the setting on not the clearest focus. I can get rid of it both ways in my 8x32 BR and my Competition. It seems better in the Comp. and my NXS. Matt

 

[Rustystud]

I have been shooting for over 50 years. Been using a scope for about 40 of that 50 year period. Have a friend in the optics business that I eat breakfast and lunch with on a regular basis. Over the last two years I have learned more about scopes, physically, optically, and mechanically. I am currently making a collimator (scope tester). I have personally observed many makes and models of scope tested. You would be amazed at what the scope makers do and don't tell you about their scopes. Especially the higher end scope makers. Recently had a customers rifle in to install a muzzle brake. returned the rifle to the customer and he said it was shooting all over the place. I got the rifle back and checked the muzzle brake and it was not the culprit. The scope was a middle of the road priced scope. I shot the gun at 50 yards and the first group was and inch to the right. the second five shot group was to the left. I had the scope tested and it had five inches of parallax. I replaced the scope with a target scope and did some load development. .3 moa at 100 yards. Then replaced the customers scope with a Nightforce 2.5 x 10 x 42mm that had been tested and it was one of the best scopes my friend has ever tested. I shot the rifle with the new scope and shot a three shot group .5 moa at 100 yards. The first group the customer shot was about 8 moa. I talked with the customer and coached him and he followed up with a 3 moa group and a 2 moa group. He was flinching and not concentrating on his trigger pull and follow through. He said the rifle has a muzzle brake and the recoil is hardly noticeable. I explained to him the gun is somewhat louder and he has muscle memory from when the recoil was significant. Classic case where the shooter would benefit from trigger time with an accurate low recoil rifle. I can recommend that test your rifle scope for parallax, and tracking by doing a ladder test.
I have found more issues with scope bases and scope rings than scopes.
Nat Lambeth

 

[Canadian bushman]

Ive struggled with the same thing on two different nxs 5.5-22x56 for nearly 2 years. The rep told me the scope should easily be parralax free by 100 yds. I think its more like 3-400 yds.

Ive found that a precise eyepiece adjustment (which is difficult bacause of the thin reticle and extra fine thread - sharp eyes adjust faster than it can be turned), extra time adjusting parallax at close range (ending with a cw rotation), trying to put my cheek and shoulder in the very same place, and zeroing my rifles at 600 yards will mostly minimize the problem, but it is my #1 complaint with the NXS series.

Also as matt mentioned, i did not experience this with the NF 8-32x56 benchrest scope.

 

[Jdne5b]

I've noticed the same thing on my NF Comp, although it's much less than 1/2 moa in my eyes. Less than 1/2 an X ring. I have doubts as to my ability to move my head without moving the rifle while looking though the scope. So I typically get it to the best I can, and go with it.

I find to get completely rid of Parallax I need the setting on not the clearest focus. I can get rid of it both ways in my 8x32 BR and my Competition. It seems better in the Comp. and my NXS. Matt

I also find this to be the case. Least amount of movement is not always the clearest picture.

 

[Canadian bushman]

I also find this to be the case. Least amount of movement is not always the clearest picture.

I agree with this as well

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I've noticed the same thing on my NF Comp, although it's much less than 1/2 moa in my eyes. Less than 1/2 an X ring. I have doubts as to my ability to move my head without moving the rifle while looking though the scope. So I typically get it to the best I can, and go with it.

I find to get completely rid of Parallax I need the setting on not the clearest focus. I can get rid of it both ways in my 8x32 BR and my Competition. It seems better in the Comp. and my NXS. Matt

I also find this to be the case. Least amount of movement is not always the clearest picture.

Yep. I sometimes wonder if this is more to do with my eyes than the scope though. Supposedly I have 20/20 eyesight, but maybe it's like 20/19.99999 or something. Often it's just a hair difference in terms of focus vs. least observed parallax.

 

[mysticplayer]

Try looking through a Sightron SIII or better yet, the new SVSS and see if the problem goes away.

I find both to be much easier on my eyes to focus

See mirage very well too.

YMMV

Jerry

 

[Thud]

Have you tried this.
a. set focus on infinity
b. point scope at sky or cover front bell with a Thin white cloth
c. Loosen eyepiece lock ring
d. focus reticle to dead nuts sharp. Tighten back up
e. remove cloth if over bell, focus on target till its focuses sharp
f. focus scale may not correspond to distance scale
g. check parallax may need slight adjustment.
Works for me

 

[Alexander-M]

My answers and comments to your kind responses:

hogpatrol,
Yes, I do wear correction eyeglasses.

M-61,
The article from ‘snipercountry’ is excellent! Among other things, it states that the eyepiece will not have any effect on parallax:" . . . and you CANNOT use the eyepiece to try to correct for parallax. That is sheer folly at best, and raw stupidity at worst." This is what I always thought; that is, until the Nightforce tech told me to use it in conjunction with the side adjustment to solve my parallax issue.

Another statement made in the article – “It is NOT possible to have parallax while moving up and down, but not have it when you are moving side to side.” I wonder if it is also true that if the scope is parallax free up-and-down, that is must also be parallax free side-to-side?

It also states that the side parallax adjustment must always be made by moving the adjustment knob from infinity down to the desired range, and never in the opposite direction. I had read this before, so that is how I do the side adjustment for parallax.

Matt, jdne5b, bushman -
I never try to get the best in-focus adjustment, but instead try for zero or minimum parallax, as many of you have stated. However, I do like to be able to clearly see the reticle center dot in the 1-1/2” white spotter, which I usually can. And to hear my scorer tell me, “you just shot the spotter” - provided it was in the X-ring, of course.

The amount of head side movement I make to test for parallax, which ends up moving the crosshairs from one side to the other of the X-ring (1/2-MOA), is not as much as I suspect I do when I settle down to actually shoot. Still, I know that I may vary my head location slightly, and this could result in a 1/4-MOA variance.

Nat,
I can consistently shoot 0.5-MOA, or under, 10-round groups at 600 yards when there is no wind, but occasionally shoot a round that opens up the group to 0.6 or 0.8-MOA, and I always wonder if that was a parallax issue. In my last big match (I shoot F-T/R) 160 rounds, I scored 1578-66X. Could I have scored 1586 if I had had no horizontal parallax?

Jerry,
I have looked through other scopes, such as the Falcon Menace I mentioned in my OP, and there was no parallax at all, period!

Thud,
I will give that a try!

I really appreciate your thoughts, I guess I am not the only one who has experienced this, and I will continue to work on it.

Nando

 

[rogn]

Years ago,I had found that most scopes I was useing had some small degree of parallax at 100 yds . The weaver T series were better than the Leupolds, but each scope was an entity unto itself. i was pretty deep into Hunter score at the time and the X dot is pretty small compared with a 6m bullet. My favorite scope at the time world retain about 0.060" of horizontal parallax and if there was a "0" I could never find it. I finally resorted to a homemade ocular cover with a vertical slot cut in it. Time was not a major issue for 5 shots and the eye was always out of the parallax zone. I didnt have to fret about having my head in the same spot all the time because it was positioned by the slot. Worked pretty well for me.

 

[Alexander-M]

rogn,

Very interesting! How wide was the slot?

Thx!

Nando

 

[rogn]

If I recall the slot was about 4-5mm. I gave enough of a aperture to see fully but your eye had to be in alignment. I never used it in dim light so I dont have any info as to whether it would restrict light at dusk or really overcast days.

 

[Alexander-M]

If I recall the slot was about 4-5mm. I gave enough of a aperture to see fully but your eye had to be in alignment. I never used it in dim light so I dont have any info as to whether it would restrict light at dusk or really overcast days.

I just tried a 3/16" wide slit and it really did not make any difference. The crosshair simply moves sideways within the slit. I needed to test a new batch of reloads, so I removed the slit insert, and was able to shoot two 10-round groups with vertical variation of 0.312 and 0.338 MOA, and horizontal of 0.486 and 0.698 MOA. (300 yards, slight 8-o'clock wind ~3 mph)

But it was worth the try anyway, so Thanks!!!

Nando

Scary: Also this morning, my wife tried my 'old' Savage 12 308 F-T/R with reloads I had leftover from last year. Her first time ever, shooting off a Duplin bipod. She shot two 5-rounds groups at 300 yards: 0.583 and 0.433 MOA. Wonder if I should even encourage her to shoot in matches?