Palma vs FTR reamers
- Thread starter Joe R
- Start date
Joe, for me there was none. I carried over from Palma my Palma 95 reamer (mind you, there is more than one version--don't know what I've got!) to F-TR and took a throat reamer to it so that I could seat the Berger 185 well out into the case neck.
Danny
Danny
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Mostly difference is in the freebore.
The 95 Palma reamer is a very common reamer for shops to have. The freebore on that reamer is about .090 I thik and it set up for 155grain bullets, whereas the 2013 FTR reamer from PTG or the 2013USFTR reamer (I think from PTG) have .168 and .170 freebore respectively. More room to seat a longer bullet out of the case.
The 95 Palma reamer is a very common reamer for shops to have. The freebore on that reamer is about .090 I thik and it set up for 155grain bullets, whereas the 2013 FTR reamer from PTG or the 2013USFTR reamer (I think from PTG) have .168 and .170 freebore respectively. More room to seat a longer bullet out of the case.
Joe R
Gold $$ Contributor
XTR,
Thanks for the warning. I just had a new barrel installed and yesterday I was breaking it in and I decided to get rid of some FGMM I had around (I didn't want to use my good handloads) and at the same time re-zero my scope. Well, only about half of the rounds chambered, the others wouldn't fit because the neck was too tight. Turns out my gunsmith had used a .3415 neck reamer. That's not an issue for my handloads because a loaded round is .336 neck diameter.
Rustystud said:
Now that you've brought it up Nat, i.e. 150 Bisley Reamer; and my unfamiliarity with the 2013 FTR and 2013 USFTR reamers ???, which may or may not be similar to the Bisley Reamer, the Bisley chamber was one that I briefly used, but did not cross over to F-TR with it.
Back in 2002 when we were getting US teams ready to go to England for the 2003 Palma World Championships, I was strong into my Palma 95 chamber, as was most of us on the two teams going over. Less than 6 months before we were to leave, we were alerted that we would have to shoot Radway Green ammo issued by the Brits. What a scramble, rumors were that it would not chamber in our Palma 95's?! Retired and living in northern CA at the time and practicing a lot at the SVSC, I went into a panic not unlike the others. Bob Gamboa was so taken up in last minute chambering work that he could not get to me in time. I called Mac Tilton at MT Guns where I had just purchased a second Barnard P action, barreled, to go with a much earlier purchased complete P action and Mastin stock combo and his V-block. He told me that I could just about chamber a .50 cal round in the Bisley chamber :
. He delivered the barreled action in about one month; of course, with a Tru-Flight barrel. One month before we were to depart, we were having a final team practice at the SVSC. Our team captain had acquired a good bit of Radway Green, and he gave each of us a dozen or so rounds to try. We were free shooting at the 1000-yard line, and I had just put 10 rounds of handloads thru my Palma 95 chamber. With hesitation, I reached over for a Radway Green, dropped it in, and slowly pushed the bolt forward. It closed!! First shot, second shot, up to 6 rounds went right where my handloads were going. Next, I warmed up the Bisley with handloads, and shot the remaining 6 rounds just as accurately. We went on to Bisley much relieved. During some of the preliminary matches, using either chamber, I had to frequently have my trigger pull weight re-checked by a match official before preceding on to the live ammo/brass turn-in point. But I never took it over to F-TR.Danny
The Pamla 95 chamber shoots well with the 175 but some would consider it short for that bullet. It was made to shoot the 155SMK. I have two rifles with the Palma 95, done by former team armorers, and I even said I wanted to shoot 175 grain bullets and one chambered the rifle with the Palma 95. It shoots great. I ended up using 155's so it all worked out in the end.Steve3 said:
When new, you cannot shoot factory 2.8" ammo, i.e. M118LR in a Palma95 chamber without pushing the bullet in about .025". I have two rifles that prove it. The Bisley 150 is probably a better fit for factory 175 grain ammo.
When Throating a 95 Palma Chamber to shoot 175s I extend the throat .070" to .120"-.125".
When throating a 95 Palma Chamber to shoot 185, 200, 210, and 215 Berger's I extend the throat to .312'-.325".
The dimension that gets a lot of people in trouble is the .200" line (web). Lapua virgins are .466". I see chambers cut by others where the webs is out as much as .472" This exercises the brass a lot during firing and reloading. It also makes reloaded once fired brass not fit in another tighter chamber. I like seeing the web not expanded more than .4685" and size back to .468'.
Most conventional dies don't size the case below the web. I have a roll sizer that resized the web and case head, it also tightens up the primer pocket.
Nat Lambeth
When throating a 95 Palma Chamber to shoot 185, 200, 210, and 215 Berger's I extend the throat to .312'-.325".
The dimension that gets a lot of people in trouble is the .200" line (web). Lapua virgins are .466". I see chambers cut by others where the webs is out as much as .472" This exercises the brass a lot during firing and reloading. It also makes reloaded once fired brass not fit in another tighter chamber. I like seeing the web not expanded more than .4685" and size back to .468'.
Most conventional dies don't size the case below the web. I have a roll sizer that resized the web and case head, it also tightens up the primer pocket.
Nat Lambeth
Down South
FTR Junkie
Rustystud said:
You extend the throat to .312 - .325 and shoot 185s & 200s?
If you plan on mag feeding go with a 95 palma reamer or you will be jumping a mile to the lands or end up with a single shot.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Rustystud said:
That seems... really long. I've been talking with a lot of top level shooters over the last year or so about what throat they are using to run the heavies... and I don't think I've heard anyone mention anything nearly that long. Maybe into the low to mid .200s for freebore with a 215 or 230, but .300"+? I've got about .140-.150 of bearing surface left in the case neck with .170 freebore. Not sure I see the advantage of running a 185 with more freebore than that...
Hmmmm... I've measured more than a few cases, both Lapua and Winchester, new and fired, and I saw more along the linds of .4685-.4695 for new Lapua, and .467 on down to .463 for virgin Winchester. In a nominal .470 chamber... the latter has led to blow-outs where the case ruptured and vented gas back down into the mag-well... requiring a lot of corrective stock work to fix, along with a clean pair of shorts for the competitor. One of a number of reasons I'm not a fan of Winchester .308 brass.
In the past I've managed to get by with a small-base F/L resizing die. That said, not all SB dies are created equal. Have one that barely sizes more than a standard Redding Type 'S' F/L die; had to purchase another one that really puts the squeeze on. Could be better, though - it still only sizes so far down the case.
I'm interested in this 'roller die'. I've heard of people getting custom 'ring dies' for situations like this... how does a roller die work, and where does a person get one?
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