Palma Team/Match History

[Aero]

With the LRWC about to happen in New Zealand along with the Palma team match and a local shooter on the team, I've been thinking a lot about the history of the match lately. I spent some time yesterday surfing around trying to find info and really didn't come up with much. I know the early history of the LR matches in the late 1800's and the building of the range at Creeds moor for them and have spent a lot of years shooting and building rifles for the Black Powder Target Rifle game.

What I would like to see is info on past Palma matches, scores, team members, whatever. I'm surprised there is not one place with much of this info or maybe there is and I just missed it.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Brady W]

Hi Aero,

There's actually quite a bit of good, and historical, information about Palma Matches online. I remember reading a very interesting article that went over how they came about, why they fell off, and what happened after WW1 and 2, where the trophy was lost, etc.

The Palma Team keeps a good website, but it is not perfect or complete to what you are asking about.

http://palma.org/

There's also some international information, and a SSUSA article here.

http://sabisley.com/history-of-the-palma-match/
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/11/7/origin-of-the-palma-trophy-and-matches

Hopefully some others can chime in with good information.

Brady

 

[Jetjock1]

Here's a little more info. Not complete by any means.
Jetjock

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Interesting that they have danced back/forth between a 1 day and a 2 day event since 92.

When I fired the match in Bloemfontein, it was a 2 day event. Individually, our shooters took as much bling home as any country. There were 650 shooters on that cycle (biggest World's ever), so it was no cake walk for anyone. Sadly, we placed 5th in all 3 of the team matches with many shots regularly going from from white to white. Pretty frustrating actually. Likely took more pilot shots than anyone on our team during the Palma because I sat directly next to the head coach. He needed a pilot and he knew loud and clear that my rifle was ready. If it has to be somebody, it may as well be me.

Sadly, one of my squad members passed away shortly after we returned to the US. Bill Cooney and i purchased a match name in Charles LaValle's honor in perpetuity at the South Africa National Championship because Charlie won their nationals just prior to the World's. He was smokin'!!

There's a little history.

 

[Aero]

Brady-

I've seen that info. I'm surprised the Palma website doesn't have some better history.

Jetjock, that's some good info. It's just too bad that some really comprehensive details apparently haven't been recorded and put together. I've always figured that the Palma matches were a pretty big deal. But then again, competitive shooting just doesn't get the accolades that it deserves, especially the paper target games where the shots have to be kept in the middle.

 

[oldroper]

Brady-

I've seen that info. I'm surprised the Palma website doesn't have some better history.

Jetjock, that's some good info. It's just too bad that some really comprehensive details apparently haven't been recorded and put together. I've always figured that the Palma matches were a pretty big deal. But then again, competitive shooting just doesn't get the accolades that it deserves, especially the paper target games where the shots have to be kept in the middle.

This is 1988 team

Australia - 1st place - 3374-211v
Great Britain - 2nd place - 3353-203v
New Zealand - 3rd place - 3348-186v
USA Team - 4th Place - 3332-183v

Shooters: MAX SCORE: 225-45V
Dennis, Dana K. 214-11
Tubb, George E. 213-16
Behl, Franklin A. 213-12
Slusarki, Jerome J. 210-14
Jackson, Arthur C. 210-10
Anthony, Richard T. 210-8
Tubb, G. David 209-16
Caseman, Jack D. 209-15
Jenkins, Jack W. 209-11
Gaskin, Duane D. 207-19
Connor, Gregory 207-8
McCollough, Mrs. Noma J. 205-10
St John, Eric M. 205-9
Wilson, Theodore 205-8
Bobbitt, Barton D. 204-7
Merritt, Steven C. 202- 9

There is member here that name Bart B he shot 204-7. I live Black Forest, Co and he live Lovelend, Co

 

[Aero]

This is 1988 team

Australia - 1st place - 3374-211v
Great Britain - 2nd place - 3353-203v
New Zealand - 3rd place - 3348-186v
USA Team - 4th Place - 3332-183v

Shooters: MAX SCORE: 225-45V
Dennis, Dana K. 214-11
Tubb, George E. 213-16
Behl, Franklin A. 213-12
Slusarki, Jerome J. 210-14
Jackson, Arthur C. 210-10
Anthony, Richard T. 210-8
Tubb, G. David 209-16
Caseman, Jack D. 209-15
Jenkins, Jack W. 209-11
Gaskin, Duane D. 207-19
Connor, Gregory 207-8
McCollough, Mrs. Noma J. 205-10
St John, Eric M. 205-9
Wilson, Theodore 205-8
Bobbitt, Barton D. 204-7
Merritt, Steven C. 202- 9

There is member here that name Bart B he shot 204-7. I live Black Forest, Co and he live Lovelend, Co

Thanks.

 

[Bart B.]

The ammo issued at the 1988 Palma Match was not as accurate in the USA teams rifles as the lot sent to all competing teams in 1987. In spite of the rules mandating both be the same lot. It wasn't as good as what we were sent in 1987. Our protests fell on deaf ears.

I shot on the first relay in the team match. Coach started me out with 28 MOA left for my first shot in winds needing an 8 MOA spread. Worst wind I've ever shot in. My relay had the lowest scores. That doesn't matter to some.

 

[Bart B.]

The 1976 Intl Palma Matches were shot at Camp Perry in Ohio. Especially bullt Winchester 70 308 Win target rifles with Redfield aperture target sights. 7.62 M118 arsenal match ammo was issued to all competitors. I think that year was the last one that required all competitors use the same rifle make-model. That was the International Palma Committee thinking to level the playing field so the best marksmen would win.

Here's interesting info on ammo in the early 1900's:

https://books.google.com/books/about/American_Rifleman.html?id=XpcwAQAAMAAJ

 

[corning]

Bart, When did they allow competitors to start using their own reloads?

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

This is 1988 team

Australia - 1st place - 3374-211v
Great Britain - 2nd place - 3353-203v
New Zealand - 3rd place - 3348-186v
USA Team - 4th Place - 3332-183v

Shooters: MAX SCORE: 225-45V
Dennis, Dana K. 214-11
Tubb, George E. 213-16
Behl, Franklin A. 213-12
Slusarki, Jerome J. 210-14
Jackson, Arthur C. 210-10
Anthony, Richard T. 210-8
Tubb, G. David 209-16
Caseman, Jack D. 209-15
Jenkins, Jack W. 209-11
Gaskin, Duane D. 207-19
Connor, Gregory 207-8
McCollough, Mrs. Noma J. 205-10
St John, Eric M. 205-9
Wilson, Theodore 205-8
Bobbitt, Barton D. 204-7
Merritt, Steven C. 202- 9

Interesting. Noma was the only one from that team that made the 1999 firing team and we were on the same squad. In fact, most of those names did not even tryout for the 1999 team. Eric took over as a coach after Bob Jensen broke his hip on a fall just prior to the team leaving for South Africa.

 

[Aero]

Great stuff. I was hoping this thread might bring out a few of the people that actually "been there, done that"

 

[corning]

It funny, looking at this thread brings back memories of friends and people I have met, both deceased and still with us, who have shot on Palma teams over the years. They are a fantastic group. Thinking about this, I should pick up the phone and call a friend, who shot on the Palma team, and roomed with me at both Camp Perry, and the Connaught ranges for a number of years.

 

[corning]

Bart B, I met you at Camp Perry, decades ago. At the time, you were traveling with, or should I say, your sidekick was Stan Biggs. Is he still with us?

 

[corning]

I don't remember the year, but it was after I took up long range. Ruger provided rifles to the US team for the Palma match. If I recall, they were equipped with Green Mountain barrels. I had heard mixed reviews on the performance of those rifles.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

The tryouts for the 03 team (Oct 01 at Butner) allowed shooter supplied ammo. Ammo was picked from the shooter's box at any time and checked to verify that 155's were used. The 2003 World's allowed shooter supplied ammo instead of the host country.

 

[corning]

Ammo was picked from the shooter's box at any time and checked to verify that 155's were used.

When I competed in Canada there was always the "threat" of that. USA is the only country that has unlimited bullet weight for Palma.

 

[Bart B.]

Bart B, I met you at Camp Perry, decades ago. At the time, you were traveling with, or should I say, your sidekick was Stan Biggs. Is he still with us?

No, Stan Bigham passed some years ago. A good friend.

Well then, hello again. Don't remember you right now.

 

[Bart B.]

I don't remember the year, but it was after I took up long range. Ruger provided rifles to the US team for the Palma match. If I recall, they were equipped with Green Mountain barrels. I had heard mixed reviews on the performance of those rifles.

Ruger built twenty rifles on their Model 77 actions modified to single shot and vertical front stock screw instead of the standard angled ones for the 1992 USA team. Poor shaped stocks for use in prone and triggers a bit worse than lousy. Some had 6 groove barrels, others had 4 which were most accurate at 1000 yards, a few barely holding the 20" 10 ring testing ammo that shot well inside the 10" X ring in their personal rifles. Nobody used one in the USA Palma team match save one youngster whose own rifle broke down.

Remington offered 20 of their 40X target rifles that were politely declined by team officials

 

[Bart B.]

Great stuff. I was hoping this thread might bring out a few of the people that actually "been there, done that"

I've learned from Palma rifle team captains and coaches that team matches are won with shooters who can call all shots well into the X ring, have good rifles then do what the coaches tells them. It's easy to get good hard holding shooters, equipment and ammo. Coaches who manage the shooters well and dope the wind better are hard to get. They deserve 60% to 70% of the credit when winning or placing wherever on the scoreboard. It's a team match, not 16 people doing their own thing.