Palma Rifle Questions

[Savage243]

I'm about to start putting together a rifle for Long Range but want it to be Palma legal. I came up shooting smallbore/airgun and more recently highpower. I contacted John Whidden back in February to get an idea of what he would suggest and then started saving my pennies. The rifle will be the stock from my Anschutz 2013, Barnard P w/ Ejector, and whatever barrel John suggests. My real questions revolve around sights.
1. Is a 30mm front sight all that important? I've heard Mr. Forshee closed shop though his site is up and Riles' site is no longer active. I see Champion's Choice has Mo's front sights but they are 22mm. I was going to go with a Riles as his stuff looks well made but if he's no longer making sights, I'll have to find used or go another way.
2. Is used the best way to go on rear sights? I've had a Centra in the past and liked it just fine. For smallbore ranges it was repeatable. Does this hold up at distance?
3. How do you get the darn tags (Wanted) to work in the classifieds? There must be a secret because I have yet to succeed.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[Park ranger]

I’m squadded with John tomorrow at Perry. Sounds like you know what your doing. 30mm will look better. Maybe save ya from a crossfire by seeing better. 22mm still better than 18mm. I hear centra are good, I use Phoenix. Buy once cry once, you can share the sights on your next Any rifle build.

 

[Stumpy1]

Welcome Aboard!

1. 30 mm sights are good, but so are 22's, and they seem to be making a comeback for some shooters. Try them both if you can -most folks will let you look through at least, if not shoot. Doug Beach is making NEW 22 and 30 mm sights http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum

2. Rear sights are harder, but some new ones are coming out. That said, a centra will work fine -get in touch with Mark Trew for Centra stuff (lenses, apertures, and sights). Used ones come up for sale once in a while.

The 'Wanted' tags are for paying members to this forum. It is a pretty good deal for all the information you will find here (hit the upgrade membership button on the right side of the page.

Sign up for the long range forum (link above). Not real active, but TONS of good information in the archives.

Again, welcome aboard to the Palma world!

Frank

 

[Doug Beach]

You can PM me from this forum, for info on front sights.
Thank you,
Doug

 

[Savage243]

I’m squadded with John tomorrow at Perry. Sounds like you know what your doing. 30mm will look better. Maybe save ya from a crossfire by seeing better. 22mm still better than 18mm. I hear centra are good, I use Phoenix. Buy once cry once, you can share the sights on your next Any rifle build.

I am known to donate points to my competitors now and then. Thank you for your input. John has been great to talk to and I'm originally from GA (more or less where Mr. Forshee lives) so it'll be good to support his business.

Welcome Aboard!

1. 30 mm sights are good, but so are 22's, and they seem to be making a comeback for some shooters. Try them both if you can -most folks will let you look through at least, if not shoot. Doug Beach is making NEW 22 and 30 mm sights http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum

2. Rear sights are harder, but some new ones are coming out. That said, a centra will work fine -get in touch with Mark Trew for Centra stuff (lenses, apertures, and sights). Used ones come up for sale once in a while.

The 'Wanted' tags are for paying members to this forum. It is a pretty good deal for all the information you will find here (hit the upgrade membership button on the right side of the page.

Sign up for the long range forum (link above). Not real active, but TONS of good information in the archives.

Again, welcome aboard to the Palma world!

Frank

I am a member on the LR forum. I go by Anschutz over there and on most forums. It was taken here when I signed up. I've seen Mark around the forum and forgot about a thread I saw with Doug's sight. I guess I should just go ahead and pay up since most of the time I search with those tags.

You can PM me from this forum, for info on front sights.
Thank you,
Doug

Expect a PM shortly.

 

[Longtrain]

I shot LR with a 22mm front sight on a 30” barrel with a 4” Houle extension tube. The front sight was a Phoenix Precision (may no longer be available?) and the iris and shades front and rear were Centra. The Centra was a no bar clear sight, which I liked better then one with a bar or cross.

 

[Twdmar]

The 30mm sight is nice, especially if you do not have the eyes of a teenager.
The centra LR rear sight works well. I prefer the side mount.

 

[Savage243]

@Longtrain I prefer a clean sight picture as well. Just the front aperture.

@Twdmar I'm back and forth on side vs rail mount. It seems to me that the mount would be closer to bore on a side mount. I'd like to scope it for load development and initial training. I haven't seen my hold in quite a while. I'm not quite 30 yet. I wear glasses but it's not a heavy correction.

 

[kuraki]

I'm about to start putting together a rifle for Long Range but want it to be Palma legal. I came up shooting smallbore/airgun and more recently highpower. I contacted John Whidden back in February to get an idea of what he would suggest and then started saving my pennies. The rifle will be the stock from my Anschutz 2013, Barnard P w/ Ejector, and whatever barrel John suggests. My real questions revolve around sights.
1. Is a 30mm front sight all that important? I've heard Mr. Forshee closed shop though his site is up and Riles' site is no longer active. I see Champion's Choice has Mo's front sights but they are 22mm. I was going to go with a Riles as his stuff looks well made but if he's no longer making sights, I'll have to find used or go another way.
2. Is used the best way to go on rear sights? I've had a Centra in the past and liked it just fine. For smallbore ranges it was repeatable. Does this hold up at distance?
3. How do you get the darn tags (Wanted) to work in the classifieds? There must be a secret because I have yet to succeed.

Thank you all in advance.

I'm a Palma newbie this year and have worked my way through similar questions.

1. I started with a 22 and have just gotten a 30. The site came from Doug Beach (he's on this forum) and the iris, lens, shade from Mark Trew (also on the forum.) Is it necessary? No. But I definitely prefer it, because it makes looking around the front sight iris to see my target number as I fight that little war in my head of whether I'm actually seeing my target or not - easier. At 600 yards it's not really a big deal but 8,9,1000 it helps me. It will cost $555 even to get this setup.

2. I have been shooting with a Centra, and just bought a used Warner. There's nothing wrong with the Centra. The Warner seems a little better made and the adjustments more positive with less backlash, I also think the scales are easier to read than the vernier type on the Centra. The Centra's thread pitch for elevation/windage is slightly different so not "exactly" 1/4 moa clicks depending on your sight radius, but they're close enough that I cannot tell that they're "off."

3. Can't help with that.

ETA: Barnard in a precise stock is an awesome setup. Can't go wrong with that.

 

[Savage243]

@kuraki Thanks for the insight on the sights. The action is going in a 2213 stock. John said he's had a few do it with no issues. See Pic below. Currently configured for standing.

 

[Twdmar]

@Longtrain I prefer a clean sight picture as well. Just the front aperture.

@Twdmar I'm back and forth on side vs rail mount. It seems to me that the mount would be closer to bore on a side mount. I'd like to scope it for load development and initial training. I haven't seen my hold in quite a while. I'm not quite 30 yet. I wear glasses but it's not a heavy correction.

The advantage of the side mount is being able to get the sight low. Unfortunately there are not a ton of side mount mounts available since al lipski doesn't seem to be making many(or any?). Beyond that, I would not worry about. The centra rear sight is cheap and available. I have one and a Phoenix and have zero complaints about the centra.

 

[Hengehold]

I'm about to start putting together a rifle for Long Range but want it to be Palma legal. I came up shooting smallbore/airgun and more recently highpower. I contacted John Whidden back in February to get an idea of what he would suggest and then started saving my pennies. The rifle will be the stock from my Anschutz 2013, Barnard P w/ Ejector, and whatever barrel John suggests. My real questions revolve around sights.
1. Is a 30mm front sight all that important? I've heard Mr. Forshee closed shop though his site is up and Riles' site is no longer active. I see Champion's Choice has Mo's front sights but they are 22mm. I was going to go with a Riles as his stuff looks well made but if he's no longer making sights, I'll have to find used or go another way.
2. Is used the best way to go on rear sights? I've had a Centra in the past and liked it just fine. For smallbore ranges it was repeatable. Does this hold up at distance?
3. How do you get the darn tags (Wanted) to work in the classifieds? There must be a secret because I have yet to succeed.

Thank you all in advance.

Congratulations on your choice to enter the sport of palma/long range rifle shooting. If you want to truly master the art of reading the wind then shooting a palma rifle at 1000yds with a 155gr bullet is the best way to get that education.

1. I would say yes, a 30mm front sight is a significant improvement over the 22mm globe size. The 30mm sight was introduced to rifle shooting by Mike Ross and eventually all of the best shooters migrated from the 22mm to the 30mm. To the point that virtually all of the shooters in the winner circle at iron sight matches are using 30mm sights. Here are a few benefits to the 30mm size.

A) Lens quality was/is better than the smaller diameter sights. At least it was in the early days of its introduction during the early 2000's. I have read that Mark Trew has some very high quality glass lenses available for the 30mm sight now also. He is a member on this forum.

B) Sight picture is big enough that it will usually include a sight level and the target number board. In my opinion this is the most significant improvement with the 30mm. Many times a 22mm sight will have a sight level outside the front sight tube and consequently it is not easy to see in the sight picture. Additionally, the number board is usually not visible in the sight picture while aiming with a 22mm.

2. Rear sights are not a consumable item so it will last longer than your lifetime. I have bought several used sights and have had no issues with any of them. However, if you buy new then you will definitely be able to get your money out of it due to the long lifespan of the equipment. As far as what brands to use, I have only used Warner and have never had any mechanical failures in any way after about 20 years of iron-sight shooting. I have also never known anyone else to experience a mechanical failure or wearing out of a rear sight of any manufacturer. Centra has a tendency to over-engineer the hell out of everything they make so I suspect that their rear sight is probably high quality and useful. If I had to start all over again I would probably buy a Centra rear sight to start with because at this point I don't know that there is anything else made that is better.

Rifle Choice: The Barnard Model-P action is a phenominal choice for a palma gun. I had used an aluminum chassis stock for many years and then moved to a conventional stock because I felt the aluminum stock had a tendency to be barrel heavy and feel like it pulled me forward out of position. To compensate for this I started using light palma contour barrels and added a little extra weight to the rear of the rifle. This helped quite a bit but ultimatly I found that I could shoot just as well with a conventional wood stock with a Barnard mounted in a V-block. However, the conventional stock seemed to take less work/practice to maintain proficiency due to the difference of balance and feel. If you have your heart set on the aluminum stock then I suggest you consider a light palma taper for your initial rifle build. Good luck with your choices. See you on the range.

-Trevor Hengehold

 

[Savage243]

Congratulations on your choice to enter the sport of palma/long range rifle shooting. If you want to truly master the art of reading the wind then shooting a palma rifle at 1000yds with a 155gr bullet is the best way to get that education.

1. I would say yes, a 30mm front sight is a significant improvement over the 22mm globe size. The 30mm sight was introduced to rifle shooting by Mike Ross and eventually all of the best shooters migrated from the 22mm to the 30mm. To the point that virtually all of the shooters in the winner circle at iron sight matches are using 30mm sights. Here are a few benefits to the 30mm size.

A) Lens quality was/is better than the smaller diameter sights. At least it was in the early days of its introduction during the early 2000's. I have read that Mark Trew has some very high quality glass lenses available for the 30mm sight now also. He is a member on this forum.

B) Sight picture is big enough that it will usually include a sight level and the target number board. In my opinion this is the most significant improvement with the 30mm. Many times a 22mm sight will have a sight level outside the front sight tube and consequently it is not easy to see in the sight picture. Additionally, the number board is usually not visible in the sight picture while aiming with a 22mm.

2. Rear sights are not a consumable item so it will last longer than your lifetime. I have bought several used sights and have had no issues with any of them. However, if you buy new then you will definitely be able to get your money out of it due to the long lifespan of the equipment. As far as what brands to use, I have only used Warner and have never had any mechanical failures in any way after about 20 years of iron-sight shooting. I have also never known anyone else to experience a mechanical failure or wearing out of a rear sight of any manufacturer. Centra has a tendency to over-engineer the hell out of everything they make so I suspect that their rear sight is probably high quality and useful. If I had to start all over again I would probably buy a Centra rear sight to start with because at this point I don't know that there is anything else made that is better.

Rifle Choice: The Barnard Model-P action is a phenominal choice for a palma gun. I had used an aluminum chassis stock for many years and then moved to a conventional stock because I felt the aluminum stock had a tendency to be barrel heavy and feel like it pulled me forward out of position. To compensate for this I started using light palma contour barrels and added a little extra weight to the rear of the rifle. This helped quite a bit but ultimatly I found that I could shoot just as well with a conventional wood stock with a Barnard mounted in a V-block. However, the conventional stock seemed to take less work/practice to maintain proficiency due to the difference of balance and feel. If you have your heart set on the aluminum stock then I suggest you consider a light palma taper for your initial rifle build. Good luck with your choices. See you on the range.

-Trevor Hengehold

@Hengehold Thank you for your input. For now, the aluminum stock is free. I'm pretty well versed at adding weight to this stock but if it doesn't work then I'll look for a wood 2013 stock or one of the other makers.

 

[clowdis]

Another good thing about the aluminum stock is that you can make a V block for almost any action and put it in the stock. That way you are shooting the same stock every time and your setup doesn't change from stock to stock if you decide you want to have a match rifle to go along with your Palma rifle.

 

[Recko555]

I have the exact 2313 stock (square actioned stock) and tried one of John's Barnard v-blocks in it. It didnt fit. Some simple modification would be needed (removing material from the rear).
FYI.

 

[Savage243]

I have the exact 2313 stock (square actioned stock) and tried one of John's Barnard v-blocks in it. It didnt fit. Some simple modification would be needed (removing material from the rear).
FYI.

You had to remove material from the stock or block? Did you go another direction or go through with it?

 

[Recko555]

I was borrowing a buddies block to check fit up, but I would of removed material from the v-block.
I would just call John and tell him what you are putting it in and he can make any adjustments prior to shipping.

 

[Savage243]

@Recko555 Thank you. I plan on talking to him once he gets home and settled following the National Matches. I'm sure we'll be able to figure something out. I'm pretty okay with a set of calipers.

 

[USMCDOC]

System Gemini Ladder Foresight

System Accessories | System Gemini United States

 

[Killick]

I never had a problem with an 18mm front sight and an RPA rear. I used an Anschutz stock as well. It was a 1400 series prone stock that I whittled and modified. Won some swell matches with it.