Pacific M scale issue, need advise.

[sparker]

Ill grant that you are smarter than I am and your system is superior, and your shooting is far better, precise and accurate than mine. While your at it please tell the pilots flying F type aircraft that you are going to remove one of their redundant computer control systems. Im sure they will appreciate your confidence.
I still will continue to use my outdated method. Thank you for your concern and input. Rogn

well Scott I could easily get all 3 of my O'haus made scales to register a kernal of Varget added. I extended the pointer, and used a USB cam to eliminate parallax. Sensitivity was not an issue. However two problems soured me on using a beam scale for day to day use

One was the settling, I will take your word for it that you can throw and trickle 46 grains in 11 seconds. For me the scales would resume swinging everytime I trickled in more powder and I would have wait for it to settle out before adding more. Depending on how many time I needed to trickle and wait, it could easily take me over a minute just to weigh a single charge charge

The second issue was repeatability between uses. I used several pieces of lead as check weights. I cut various lengths for appx. 10 grains, 20 grains, 40 grains etc then weighed on a friend's Sartorius and recorded the exact weight of each. Even after repeated leveling, cleaning the pivots with electrical cleaner and lint free cloth and stoning the knives it was hit or miss whether any of the beams could come within .1 grains when I would test them before use. I just could not have faith in their accuracy or precision once I started double checking my charges on a electronic scale or weigh the check weights.

That's just my experience, others mileage may vary as they say. I have no dogs in this fight, no reason to lie about it. Now I just use my electronic scales for measuring and collect the beam scales and old powder throws as decorations. I plan on putting some shelves above my work benches to display them

I’ve not had repeatability as an issue with a beam.

 

[JimSC]

I’ve not had repeatability as an issue with a beam.

I am glad that you have found what works for you


edit - if you go check some of my posts concerning load development you will see that on load development I follow a method where I look for a load that will work over several tenths of a grain with minimal velocity variation and load to the middle of that node. In reality I could easily use charges weighed on any beam and see no difference in POI at long range. Accuracy and precision of the charges aside I find loading with my electronics much faster and more convenient in general.

 

[PRR1957]

You could contact @sparker here on the forum perhaps he has one for sale.
I prefer the heavy chassis model 1005, or M5 due to the main poise in 5 grain increments vs the10 grain main poise increments of the 10-10

How is that your two scales can defy gravity ?

 

[JFrank]

How is that your two scales can defy gravity ?

I don’t follow your question, could you expand please?
Ah of course’
Never more evident once reviewed!
Thx
J

 

[DadWil]

If you still have the scale you may want to check the position of the knife edge that holds the pan yoke. I have two of the Hornady/Pacific M scales. Both purchased used off Ebay..one had repeatability issues...what i discovered was that the knife edge for the pan yoke was turned on it's side. Most likely the result of someone (most likely me) adjusting the calibration weights and loosening the set screw that holds the bar with the knife edge in place. After correcting the position of the knife edge the scale has been much more reliable.

 

[pdhntr]

If you still have the scale you may want to check the position of the knife edge that holds the pan yoke. I have two of the Hornady/Pacific M scales. Both purchased used off Ebay..one had repeatability issues...what i discovered was that the knife edge for the pan yoke was turned on it's side. Most likely the result of someone (most likely me) adjusting the calibration weights and loosening the set screw that holds the bar with the knife edge in place. After correcting the position of the knife edge the scale has been much more reliable.

The issue was not repeatability. And I checked everything numerous times when I found the issue.

The issue, for lack of a better word, was linearity. The worst example was 29.9 grains of powder. I could weigh out 29.9 grains and then move the poise to 30.0 and reweigh the sample and the scale would show more than 30 grains. It would do this to some extent at around 9.9, 19.9, 29.9 was the worst and so on.

The scale was used for many years by my father and myself and we never found the problem until I did by accident. It always zeroed well and was repeatable.

Some of the poise detents were off. And if you don't specifically look for the problem, you likely won't find it.

I still have the scale. It is marked junk by me. I now have two beam scales that work very well and I am happy with. I actually have a third coming, but it is for a young guy getting into reloading and I am going to give it to him as a surprise gift. But they aren't the H/P M scale.

Jim

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The issue was not repeatability. And I checked everything numerous times when I found the issue.

The issue, for lack of a better word, was linearity. The worst example was 29.9 grains of powder. I could weigh out 29.9 grains and then move the poise to 30.0 and reweigh the sample and the scale would show more than 30 grains. It would do this to some extent at around 9.9, 19.9, 29.9 was the worst and so on.

The scale was used for many years by my father and myself and we never found the problem until I did by accident. It always zeroed well and was repeatable.

Some of the poise detents were off. And if you don't specifically look for the problem, you likely won't find it.

I still have the scale. It is marked junk by me. I now have two beam scales that work very well and I am happy with. I actually have a third coming, but it is for a young guy getting into reloading and I am going to give it to him as a surprise gift. But they aren't the H/P M scale.

Jim

Put that old scale on the shelf to remember your dad while you load

 

[Dgd6mm]

I was given an old Pacific from the fella that got me into reloading and mentored me for a time. I started loading. 300RUM and .300Lapua first, then .223 and. 22-250. I gave it to a young man that was getting into reloading, along with it I gave him a .223 die set and other things. That press was solid.

 

[TTE]

The issue was not repeatability. And I checked everything numerous times when I found the issue.

The issue, for lack of a better word, was linearity. The worst example was 29.9 grains of powder. I could weigh out 29.9 grains and then move the poise to 30.0 and reweigh the sample and the scale would show more than 30 grains. It would do this to some extent at around 9.9, 19.9, 29.9 was the worst and so on.

The scale was used for many years by my father and myself and we never found the problem until I did by accident. It always zeroed well and was repeatable.

Some of the poise detents were off. And if you don't specifically look for the problem, you likely won't find it.

I still have the scale. It is marked junk by me. I now have two beam scales that work very well and I am happy with. I actually have a third coming, but it is for a young guy getting into reloading and I am going to give it to him as a surprise gift. But they aren't the H/P M scale.

Jim

What did you end up getting ?

 

[pdhntr]

What did you end up getting ?

An Ohaus 10-0-5 scale.

I then used the lenses out of an old set of binoculars and mounted them in front of a cheap web-cam and hooked it up to a chrome book. Sweet setup. I really like it.

Jim

 

[pdhntr]

 

[TTE]

That's cool with the camera. I don't know why they don't extend the line on the beam past the 0 line, would make it easier to read.

 

[1066]

If you are using a camera it might make sense to extend the pointer - if not using a camera it tends to be counter productive as the pointer needs to be mounted on some sort of spacer to stand clear of the "0" scale. With the floating agate bearings found on a number of different scales, when in use, the beam wobbles side to side and must not be able to touch the marker plate.
If not using a camera, with the extended pointer well clear of the zero plate, it can easily lead to parallax error when reading the scale.