PA might come out of the 19th Century!
- Thread starter MrMajestic
- Start date
I'm a life long resident of PA except when I was in the Army. I'm not against semi-autos but worry about turning Rambo loose in the woods. I just hope the guys I see on the range with their AR's are not hunters.
As for Sunday hunting, I'd like to see it pass but a lot of the farms where I hunt will not permit Sunday hunting on religious grounds even for the dreaded ghogs.
As for Sunday hunting, I'd like to see it pass but a lot of the farms where I hunt will not permit Sunday hunting on religious grounds even for the dreaded ghogs.
MrMajestic said:
Wow!
Does anybody actually READ any more?
Where is all of this "Guys blazing at deer running through the woods, with FMJ ammo, and bouncing ricochets all over the countryside, while I hide way up in a tree fort out of the line of fire" stuff coming from??
Groundhogs, fox, and coyotes.
I'm not a biologist, but I'm pretty sure that whitetail deer don't fall into any of those families.
Also a lot of talk about cheap AR-15 rifles being used by inexperienced hunters.
Has anybody compared prices of a high quality target version AR-15 (appropriate for groundhogs) to a generic Remington 710/770?
I doubt you'll have a lot of guys with M-4 clones, sporting short barrels and irons, and covered in tacticool lights, loaded with a full 30-round mag, chasing groundhogs.
It's embarrassing sometimes reading these posts, knowing that the anti-gun and anti-hunting crowd also reads here, just drooling at the fodder that fellow shooters feed to them with a silver spoon.
Has anybody compared prices of a high quality target version AR-15 (appropriate for groundhogs) to a generic Remington 710/770?
I doubt you'll have a lot of guys with M-4 clones, sporting short barrels and irons, and covered in tacticool lights, loaded with a full 30-round mag, chasing groundhogs.
It's embarrassing sometimes reading these posts, knowing that the anti-gun and anti-hunting crowd also reads here, just drooling at the fodder that fellow shooters feed to them with a silver spoon.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Here in TN you are 'gasp' allowed to hunt Sundays, use pretty much any center fire you own, and heaven forbid even use X-bows in archery season, guess what, we still have a limit of about 13 deer a season (three antlered) if you hunt Archery, ML and rifle assuming you don't get any lottery hunts, or hunt in unit L where you can shoot 3 does a day.
Plenty of rocks here, (what is the name of that song again?) Don't recall anyone ricocheting anything in my direction.
Then again, maybe people just get more stupid the further north you go, but I doubt it, more likely people just need something to over react to this week.
TN is considering dropping the 3 antlered a yr limit to 2 to improve the heard.
(personally I prefer a single shot to a semi, but WTF ever trips your trigger)
Plenty of rocks here, (what is the name of that song again?) Don't recall anyone ricocheting anything in my direction.
Then again, maybe people just get more stupid the further north you go, but I doubt it, more likely people just need something to over react to this week.
TN is considering dropping the 3 antlered a yr limit to 2 to improve the heard.
(personally I prefer a single shot to a semi, but WTF ever trips your trigger)
SKILL- at one time that is what was required to harvest a game animal. The only purpose of a semi-auto is fast repeat shots - (without all the that expensive, time consuming practice required in order become proficient with manually operated firearms. :
)
The problem with hunting these days is a successful hunt is only measured by the number of tags one fills out. Even in my first few years of hunting that was not my number one priority. Success, from the outset, was learning the animals habits and, if lucky place myself at the most opportune location for at least a chance for a shot.
On it's face it's ludicrous not to expect more stray bullet issue with semi's. One has just to pay attention to the local news the first few days of big game season to hear reporting on school kids being nearly hit by stray bullets, or where one has a bullet through their LR window- at least here in N.E. PA as most areas are densely populated......very few area's are shotgun slug only.
Several years ago, an incident in Lehigh County resulted in a woman hit in the head while sitting in her car ...all through a deer hunter who shot at a deer that was on the horizon (i.e. no backstop). For a few months afterward there was considerable talk among the PGC about drastically increasing the shotgun only zones. The news media played on the hype, but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.
So watch what you ask for, these days there are a multitude of unintended consequences that can develop when a hunting tragedy occurs and PC overtakes common sense. IMHO, we are on a thin edge now with the current laws, and allowing AR's for hunting will only fast-track shotgun only in a large portion of the state .....and you think PA hunting license sales are low now?
)The problem with hunting these days is a successful hunt is only measured by the number of tags one fills out. Even in my first few years of hunting that was not my number one priority. Success, from the outset, was learning the animals habits and, if lucky place myself at the most opportune location for at least a chance for a shot.
On it's face it's ludicrous not to expect more stray bullet issue with semi's. One has just to pay attention to the local news the first few days of big game season to hear reporting on school kids being nearly hit by stray bullets, or where one has a bullet through their LR window- at least here in N.E. PA as most areas are densely populated......very few area's are shotgun slug only.
Several years ago, an incident in Lehigh County resulted in a woman hit in the head while sitting in her car ...all through a deer hunter who shot at a deer that was on the horizon (i.e. no backstop). For a few months afterward there was considerable talk among the PGC about drastically increasing the shotgun only zones. The news media played on the hype, but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.
So watch what you ask for, these days there are a multitude of unintended consequences that can develop when a hunting tragedy occurs and PC overtakes common sense. IMHO, we are on a thin edge now with the current laws, and allowing AR's for hunting will only fast-track shotgun only in a large portion of the state .....and you think PA hunting license sales are low now?
LHSmith said:SKILL- at one time that is what was required to harvest a game animal. The only purpose of a semi-auto is fast repeat shots - (without all the that expensive, time consuming practice required in order become proficient with manually operated firearms. :
The problem with hunting these days is a successful hunt is only measured by the number of tags one fills out. Even in my first few years of hunting that was not my number one priority. Success, from the outset, was learning the animals habits and, if lucky place myself at the most opportune location for at least a chance for a shot.
On it's face it's ludicrous not to expect more stray bullet issue with semi's. One has just to pay attention to the local news the first few days of big game season to hear reporting on school kids being nearly hit by stray bullets, or where one has a bullet through their LR window- at least here in N.E. PA as most areas are densely populated......very few area's are shotgun slug only.
Several years ago, an incident in Lehigh County resulted in a woman hit in the head while sitting in her car ...all through a deer hunter who shot at a deer that was on the horizon (i.e. no backstop). For a few months afterward there was considerable talk among the PGC about drastically increasing the shotgun only zones. The news media played on the hype, but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.
So watch what you ask for, these days there are a multitude of unintended consequences that can develop when a hunting tragedy occurs and PC overtakes common sense. IMHO, we are on a thin edge now with the current laws, and allowing AR's for hunting will only fast-track shotgun only in a large portion of the state .....and you think PA hunting license sales are low now?
Again...... did you pay ANY attention to the subject? ???
We are talking GROUNDHOGS, FOXES, and COYOTES here, not deer.
You don't have "tags" for groundhogs, you very rarely get a follow up shot, and I don't see the PAGC implementing a shotgun only season for groundhogs.
A properly set up AR-15 can be VERY accurate at long range (groundhog fields), making it a quite safe choice. A skilled shooter using an AR-15 platform is not likely to be randomly bouncing bullets across the hillsides, because those highly frangible (not FMJ...) bullets will be landing where intended.
But since you are totally stuck on deer, let's see some hard facts, and stats from states where semis are allowed for deer and other big game.
How are their safety records compared to PA? What is their rate of hunting accidents compared to PA?
Find me something solid to back up your "it's ludicrous...." statement.
+1Cold Bore said:LHSmith said:SKILL- at one time that is what was required to harvest a game animal. The only purpose of a semi-auto is fast repeat shots - (without all the that expensive, time consuming practice required in order become proficient with manually operated firearms. :
The problem with hunting these days is a successful hunt is only measured by the number of tags one fills out. Even in my first few years of hunting that was not my number one priority. Success, from the outset, was learning the animals habits and, if lucky place myself at the most opportune location for at least a chance for a shot.
On it's face it's ludicrous not to expect more stray bullet issue with semi's. One has just to pay attention to the local news the first few days of big game season to hear reporting on school kids being nearly hit by stray bullets, or where one has a bullet through their LR window- at least here in N.E. PA as most areas are densely populated......very few area's are shotgun slug only.
Several years ago, an incident in Lehigh County resulted in a woman hit in the head while sitting in her car ...all through a deer hunter who shot at a deer that was on the horizon (i.e. no backstop). For a few months afterward there was considerable talk among the PGC about drastically increasing the shotgun only zones. The news media played on the hype, but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.
So watch what you ask for, these days there are a multitude of unintended consequences that can develop when a hunting tragedy occurs and PC overtakes common sense. IMHO, we are on a thin edge now with the current laws, and allowing AR's for hunting will only fast-track shotgun only in a large portion of the state .....and you think PA hunting license sales are low now?
Again...... did you pay ANY attention to the subject? ???
We are talking GROUNDHOGS, FOXES, and COYOTES here, not deer.
You don't have "tags" for groundhogs, you very rarely get a follow up shot, and I don't see the PAGC implementing a shotgun only season for groundhogs.
A properly set up AR-15 can be VERY accurate at long range (groundhog fields), making it a quite safe choice. A skilled shooter using an AR-15 platform is not likely to be randomly bouncing bullets across the hillsides, because those highly frangible (not FMJ...) bullets will be landing where intended.
But since you are totally stuck on deer, let's see some hard facts, and stats from states where semis are allowed for deer and other big game.
How are their safety records compared to PA? What is their rate of hunting accidents compared to PA?
Find me something solid to back up your "it's ludicrous...." statement.
Perhaps you should read my post more closely. I prefaced the post with "game animals".
It does not matter if the current proposal allows AR use only for small game, it WILL increase the likelyhood of more firearm restrictions for ALL seasons with increased exposure.
It's quite simple, more rounds down range = more opportunities for those errant ricochets that raise alarm.
Just one single ricochet has closed down more than a few shooting ranges.
I spent whole summers of my youth hunting groundhogs and 1/ I never felt the need to hunt them with a semi-auto 2/ With patience, I ALWAYS got a followup shot.
One only has to look at neighboring New Jersey to see what is on the horizon for PA......no rifles for deer, a permit for rifles used for small game which are regulated by a convoluted list of what can be used where and when.
You proponents for AR's are not going to stop at the PGC allowing their use for small game, you will push for across the board use....after-all "that's what other states do". I abhor anything "progressive" because it eventually leads to loss of freedom.
I know for a fact an increasing number of farmers are resorting to gas poison for GH's because they don't want the liability of giving hunters permission to hunt them and IMO this will accelerate that trend.
It does not matter if the current proposal allows AR use only for small game, it WILL increase the likelyhood of more firearm restrictions for ALL seasons with increased exposure.
It's quite simple, more rounds down range = more opportunities for those errant ricochets that raise alarm.
Just one single ricochet has closed down more than a few shooting ranges.
I spent whole summers of my youth hunting groundhogs and 1/ I never felt the need to hunt them with a semi-auto 2/ With patience, I ALWAYS got a followup shot.
One only has to look at neighboring New Jersey to see what is on the horizon for PA......no rifles for deer, a permit for rifles used for small game which are regulated by a convoluted list of what can be used where and when.
You proponents for AR's are not going to stop at the PGC allowing their use for small game, you will push for across the board use....after-all "that's what other states do". I abhor anything "progressive" because it eventually leads to loss of freedom.
I know for a fact an increasing number of farmers are resorting to gas poison for GH's because they don't want the liability of giving hunters permission to hunt them and IMO this will accelerate that trend.
This forum has seen an increasing number of posts about inconsiderate unsafe AR shooters that they have encountered at their local club range. Well, these are the guy's you are going to release onto PA's public and private lands. They won't follow the simple range rules posted at the club while under watchful eyes of other members.....do you really think they will follow game and trespass laws when no one else is watching?
LHSmith said:
And then proceeded to specifically name deer, numerous times.
So what I'm seeing here is that you sent extra rounds downrange yourself, upping the odds that you were going to hit the little old lady having coffee in her kitchen with a stray round. Maybe with a more accurate rifle, i.e. purpose-built AR-15, you would've scored on your first shot, completely negating the need for all of your follow up shots, thus minimizing rounds downrange and the associated potential for ricochets.
hogpatrol
Silver $$ Contributor
Hunting is a self discipline sport. Either you hunt safe or not. The platform is immaterial.
Edit: How many of you old timers that hunted deer in the PA mountains remember five or six fast shots on first day BEFORE daylight and think, "well, I know what he's shooting, a Remington pump"?
Then invariably, you'd hear another guy let loose with a volley of three or four, again a "pumper". ;D
Edit: How many of you old timers that hunted deer in the PA mountains remember five or six fast shots on first day BEFORE daylight and think, "well, I know what he's shooting, a Remington pump"?
Then invariably, you'd hear another guy let loose with a volley of three or four, again a "pumper". ;D
So many talk about the decline of hunters, yet refuse to accept the fact that where legal, your choice of gun, or bow, is just that. An individual choice.. More meaningful than the gun one chooses, is the additional participation and license revenue.
Edit: I remember not wanting the use of crossbows to be legal while I was out with my longbows. I finally realized just how selfish my reasoning was.
Edit: I remember not wanting the use of crossbows to be legal while I was out with my longbows. I finally realized just how selfish my reasoning was.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
JRS said:
Personal note here, in TN I opted for a X bow because I am 6'4" with the wing span approaching that of an NBA player (80" finger tip to finger tip) and finding an upright bow was pretty cost prohibitive. Twenty five yrs ago I was over drawing a compound and had it blow up in my hands. A very unpleasant experience.
Fast forward to this yr and I'm moving to a state that doesn't allow X-bows in archery season. I've spent the last month researching and searching for a compound that will give the draw I need. About the only bow that will work for me is a PSE Freak; I'll be into it for well north of $1000 before it's over, even used.
This whole topic reminds me of an article I read a couple of yrs ago that discussed the difference in the preconceived perception and the reality of the harvest in states that are allowing x-bows in archery season. It's actually pretty much unchanged.
As for semi's, yea, since I was a teen in GA in '70s the I've heard the BOOM, BOOM, BOOM in the woods. Rarely do those guys actually come home with meat.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Again it simply amaze's me how every post turns into arguments over what gun is ethical. I think they all are in my opinion and to blame an AR-15 or AR-10 is ludicrous. Keep in mind it is the nut behind any trigger that is the problem. I have witnessed guys shooting directly in my direction shooting at deer which had no backstop hitting my uncle's house on more than one occasion. If a hunter doesn't learn he will always be a detriment in the woods no matter what he shoot's. Let's promote safety and use our complaining on the real problem which is the loss of rifleman who know the rule's and reg's with safety being paramount.
Well said Jon.
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