Out of battery detonation

[shoot4fun]

I am not going to even try to think up or add any theory of what happened in this situation.
But, I will say over my 60+ years of growing up shooting I have seen at least one other totally unexplainable detonation.
Dove shooting once and could clearly see the hunter near me sitting on his stool with the safe shotgun laying across his lap and directed in a safe manner. Not sure why I was looking that way at that moment in time but what I saw was and is unexplainable even today.
I heard a very muffled pop (almost thud), then a confused look on the hunter's face. he raised the pump shotgun and ejected a live round from the chamber, only to have shot come pouring out from the mag tube.
The shotgun was in his lap, no hands on it, safety set, unmarred in any way but "detonated" in the magazine tube!
It did ZERO damage to the shotgun, the shell didn't split and the primer was not struck. We cleaned out the debris and he finished the hunt.

 

[tmwinds]

I am not going to even try to think up or add any theory of what happened in this situation.
But, I will say over my 60+ years of growing up shooting I have seen at least one other totally unexplainable detonation.
Dove shooting once and could clearly see the hunter near me sitting on his stool with the safe shotgun laying across his lap and directed in a safe manner. Not sure why I was looking that way at that moment in time but what I saw was and is unexplainable even today.
I heard a very muffled pop (almost thud), then a confused look on the hunter's face. he raised the pump shotgun and ejected a live round from the chamber, only to have shot come pouring out from the mag tube.
The shotgun was in his lap, no hands on it, safety set, unmarred in any way but "detonated" in the magazine tube!
It did ZERO damage to the shotgun, the shell didn't split and the primer was not struck. We cleaned out the debris and he finished the hunt.

The lap is not a good place to have a unintentional detonation.

 

[jelenko]

The lap is not a good place to have a unintentional detonation.

Indeed!

 

[ISS]

Another reason I like my 6-shot 1949 manufactured S&W K-22.

 

[clowdis]

Looking at your cylinder from the back, does it rotate clockwise or counterclockwise when you cock the pistol?

 

[bobm]

It rotates CCW the same as S&W.

For those following this story, I have not heard from Ruger or the ammo maker yet. In due time.....

 

[tommeboy]

I had a black powder 44 go full auto on me one time. What was funny was the group on the target was better than I normally shoot. It was the first time using #10 Remington caps. Always used CCI before that.

Glad you did not get hurt. I had a Taurus 38 that had timing issues. It spit lead back at you all the time.

 

[distinguished]

Why not name the ammo and lot number? I experienced an ammo issue with a certain lot of Aguila once and posted about it.

 

[K22]

I had an idea of how this might happen although it is merely a wild guess.

Since the chambers are so close together is it possible the "hand (paw)" got hung up after the cylinder was rotated into battery on round 4, then the denotation of round 4 cause the hand to fall and strike round 5?

The reason I thought of this is that the hand on the S&W's has a very sharp point on the hand. I am not familiar with the Ruger, but I just wonder if the hand falling on a live round would have enough energy to denotate it. I can't see how but I am just thinking out loud.

 

[bobm]

Why not name the ammo and lot number? I experienced an ammo issue with a certain lot of Aguila once and posted about it.

My thoughts were to give the manufacturer a chance to evaluate this before me going public. Why create panic and give internet exposure to a highly rare incident. This is a well respected manufacturer. I will give them more time to respond. If an injury was involved, my email to them would have been given a priority.

In time I will make this ammo known with my photos.

 

[bobm]

I had an idea of how this might happen although it is merely a wild guess.

Since the chambers are so close together is it possible the "hand (paw)" got hung up after the cylinder was rotated into battery on round 4, then the denotation of round 4 cause the hand to fall and strike round 5?

The reason I thought of this is that the hand on the S&W's has a very sharp point on the hand. I am not familiar with the Ruger, but I just wonder if the hand falling on a live round would have enough energy to denotate it. I can't see how but I am just thinking out loud.

This picture shows the pawl (hand) in the full extended position. Depressing the center cylinder lock pin allows the hammer to be pulled back in turn operating the pawl.

As you can see it is well below from striking the cartridge case rim.

I am still convinced that somehow a tiny amount of priming compound was pinched and ignited the propellant. That bullet had 3/4" of free travel before striking the frame. The bullet was still inside the tight chamber at this contact and the gasses forced the soft lead out. How fast was this bullet traveling in just 3/4" of chamber?

 

[bobm]

Still no word from Ruger or the ammo maker. Ruger says allow up to three days for replies.

So to kill some time waiting, I sectioned one of the normal fired cases for a look. We know wet priming compound is centrifugally spun into the rim and dried. The inside folded metal is sharply tapered thin and would accept forced in liquid. Would this thin volatile compound be more susceptible to light impact detonation? Could minor cylinder end play have played a role? Maybe. Who knows.

 

[hoz53]

Still no word from Ruger or the ammo maker. Ruger says allow up to three days for replies.

So to kill some time waiting, I sectioned one of the normal fired cases for a look. We know wet priming compound is centrifugally spun into the rim and dried. The inside folded metal is sharply tapered thin and would accept forced in liquid. Would this thin volatile compound be more susceptible to light impact detonation? Could minor cylinder end play have played a role? Maybe. Who knows.

Of coarse i know they make 22LR at very high speed to be able to sell them for what they do and nothing is perfect— some rounds will not be up to spec. its surprising to me more of them dont have issues. So that could be the problem but I think the 10 shot cylinder with all the cases so close together had something to do with it. Im just glad you didnt get hurt!! Im a 6 shooter guy from way back and thats all ill ever have in a revolver. It will be interesting to see what the final deal is. I for one will be watching your posts.

 

[243winxb]

i had some thin case heads, where they bulged and push off the bolt/slide face of High Standards. The Rugers didnt care..

Revolvers- cylinder timing, not locked on firing, most likely?

Case rupture of 22lr can happen. 1 was as a true out of battery firing. The disconector should never allow this on a semi- auto firearm. Some internet photos.

 

[243winxb]

Revolvers- cylinder timing, not locked on firing, most likely?

Unloaded gun.

Test- Slowly pull the hammer back for each chamber. Do all 10 positions lock the cylinder?

 

[bobm]

Unloaded gun.

Test- Slowly pull the hammer back for each chamber. Do all 10 positions lock the cylinder?

The Ruger functions perfectly as it should, 10 place solid lockup.

I do not have an issue with the ammunition. I realize this is a mass produced product and things happen. Therefore, I have the pictures taken within minutes of the incident to share. Absolutely NO defects in any of the fired cases. This was NOT a flame caused chain reaction issue.

But, you can see some burnishing mark where the detonated case (no firing pin hit) did rub or impact lightly on the recoil shield.

My main concern is getting advice from Ruger on what they recommend. My gut says no harm done, clean up the mess and move on. I hate the idea of possibly losing the new gun for an extended period while they look at it.

The costs and shipping hassle added to the dreadful purchasing experience I just went through....3 day waiting period, two 150 mile round trips to the store, and an in-store 30 minute computer problem issue delaying leaving with my gun.

But, I will be patient and wait for Ruger to reply and follow their advice.

Additional ammunition details by PM

 

[bobm]

UPDATE....

Ruger contacted me and I spoke to a service rep at length this morning. I was urged to send the revolver in for evaluation. I have an RMA from them with all shipping costs covered by Ruger. Next is boxing it up and a trip to the FedEx main shipping depot.

Could be up to six weeks turn around time but likely sooner.

Still no word from the ammo maker but I will stay on top of it, Ruger advised the same.

 

[bobm]

Dear Valued Ruger Customer,

We have received your Ruger firearm and are reviewing your concerns. We will work hard to address
your concerns and get back to you quickly. Our typical response time is approximately 2-4 weeks, but we will
update you along the way so that you can track the process.

If you have any questions about your firearm, please contact Customer Service at ........

Still nothing from the ammo maker after two contacts with pictures.

 

[HarrisHighwall]

FWIW
I have seen a short headspace chamber compress the rim till it fired on closing.
No firing pin impact and fired every time.
Making the chamber a little deeper ( .002) fixed it for that brand of extra thick rim ammo
and that gun / chamber.
Wonder if a foreign object or dirt on the shell or "ramp" might have been enough to
compress the rim to the ignition point?
Alternatively a foreign object could have been trapped between the rim and the chamber.
That could cause a burnishing of the back of the shell as it rotates and the ramp increases
pressure to the ignition point.
By the time you opened the gun and removed the brass any foreign matter could have
easily been lost without being noticed.

It is amazing how often cleaning a gun will "fix" loading, firing and ejection issues.

 

[bobm]

UPDATE....

The ammo manufacturer contacted me this morning. They wanted the lot number, asked how much of this ammo I still have and to send all the pictures I might have about this incident. They asked if I had sent the revolver back to Ruger yet to which I replied yes.