Opinions Requested - .22 Hornet Rifle
- Thread starter Shynloco
- Start date
I have a an old Kimber 22 Hornet in which I have tryed various reloads. I started reloading in 1953 and have reloaded various cartridges. My experience with that old thin ,tapered,rimed case has lead me to think it should have died of old age years ago. In an attempt to make it a better case some have it rechambered into the K Hornet. Take a look at the 221 Fireball round. It puts a bullet out a bit faster ,but the muzzle blast is not much more than the old hornet. I have reloaded one box of Fireball cases ten time without any case loss. The Fireball is eazy to find accurate loads using LilGun and Re 7 powders with 40 grain bullets. I shoot a Rem 700 LS 221 Fireball . Its a fine prairie dog shooter so that old Kimber stays at home since getting the Fireball rifle...
I will echo what pintopete has said and recommend the Browning. If you keep an eye open they can be picked up for about $600. Using Hornady's 35 grain factory ammo I am so impressed with how this gun shoots and have never heard of one that wouldn't shoot. Just my opinion. Good luck, Dave
snert said:
Snert-
that -exactly- mirrors my experience and background.
The Ruger K77 shot terribly (>3") with various initial loading attempts so I had it professionally bedded- no better! I then did a fair bit of research on the Net and played with all sorts of brass treatment, pistol primers, crimping, etc.. The thing never really did better than 1.5" groups and generally worse.
I largely put it aside but while on a trip to the US, grabbed some 35gr V-Max projs and voila, immediately got sub-inch groups on a regular basis. The average was probably around 1.2" so nothing flash.
In the end I sold it and have stuck with several .223s including a suppressed semi-custom which is like a std HV rimfire to shoot except it hits like a .223
Chris-NZ
i would suggest you skip the 22hornet and buy or build a 17 ackley hornet. they are very accurate and you will get some amazing speed as well.
check out
http://www.saubier.com/
they are to the sub calibers what this site is to BR
the nice thing about the ruger is that you can buy a 17AH barrel from a company like lilja and swap it yourself add a trigger bed it or not and you have a great varmint-target rifle thats accurate, cheap to feed and easy on barrels--cam
check out
http://www.saubier.com/
they are to the sub calibers what this site is to BR
the nice thing about the ruger is that you can buy a 17AH barrel from a company like lilja and swap it yourself add a trigger bed it or not and you have a great varmint-target rifle thats accurate, cheap to feed and easy on barrels--cam
Not my findings,have a friend with a Cooper what wouldn't shoot less than a 1.5" group.He sent it back to Cooper and they said it was shooting as expected.Most any factory gun will shoot as good or better is my findings.To answer the original question,I would buy the CZ.Hands down a good shooting rifle is my findings.Good luck with your decision.Vanguard said:
I first had a Ruger,after trying everything,I was about to give up! Then I found a article that explained how the 2 peice bolt needed shimming up,to remove the play in it. After that project,it was accurate as anything I had. Then I got to reading about the Savage Model 40,and how well it shot a lot of diffrent bullets well. Also you can "run the bullet out" close to the lands, plus shoot longer bullets,40-50-55gr. V Max bullets(couldn't do that with the Ruger's rotary magazine). It even shoots the 35gr. V Max bullets well. My favorite load is,a 40gr. v max,12.7grs. Lil gun powder,remington 7 1/2 BR primers. Shoot's into the .4-.2's @ 100 yds. Ronbozo699 said:Well one thing is for sure, 29 posts, read 810 times and the followers of this post are not undecided they either love the inherently inaccurate little hornets or they hate them, no wishy wasy in betweener's :
Wayne..........( Hornet Hater )
Of those 3 the CZ hands down. But.....I just sold my CZ452varmint 17HMR Friday, not because of the gun...it is extremely well built and superbly accurate, I sold it to get another .22 Hornet. The Hornet fills the niche I need..a good 200yr varmint gun with not much noise, cheap to shoot and accurate and more oomph than the 17. There's a reason this cartridge has been around so long. My advise would be to forego all those rifles and get a Handi rifle. I'm negotiating now to get back one I sold back in the fall. Dime size groups at 100. I hear so much about split cases...I dunno about that...never had one. I have had plenty on 357's and 44's, so what's the big deal? I know, the Handi doesn't have any snob appeal...except to people who have owned them. The snob part is that "I have a cheap-acid little gun that will shoot rings around your high dollar rig". I also have a match grade AR and I really enjoyed shooting the Hornet more. Guess how long a pound of powder lasts dipping out 10-12 grains at a time? I think a lot of people are caught up in the bigger is better hype and just have never gotten to know a truly fun little cartridge. I guess that's why a lot of old geezers, me included, like 'em. We've already gone through all that stuff and can pick out what we like from past experiences. I've owned, Rem 700's in 6mm, 222, 223, 308, 300 Wthby, 22-250, and 30-06 more than one in some calibers, a Browning 1885 in 6mm and 45-70, several superb shooting 788's a couple of original Rem. Police Snipers, the wooden stocked ones, so it's not like I haven't experienced some good rifles. I like the Hornet and I like the Handis...but that's just senile ol' bagdad's amateur opinion.
I havn't seen it mentioned yet, but, factory loaded ammo for the Hornet is loaded with .223" dia. bulllets out of respect for the older rifles still in use. Those new factory rifles have .224" bores. Older Hornets, like my old 1923D Chicopee Falls Savage, have .223" bores. General 'rule of thumb', pre-WW2 .223", post war .224".
Yes I do reload. Reckon how I split them 357 and 44 cases? By overworking the brass. On the Hornet, I neck sized the cases and I started with about 150 cases, which lasts me awhile, and I don't load them to the max. Your dies may be different, you may load the little buggers up to 2x overloads, you may have been using different brass...or you may have never shot one and just have an opinion, I dunno. I'm just describing my experience..as I said it fits my little niche. You hate the Hornet...that's odd....I never met a cartridge I didn't like. Met some that didn't fit my needs, however. I've had two Hornets, a TC and the little Handi. Like I said, if it was "bad" cartridge, it would've faded away by now. The .222 was a "great" cartridge and it's about gone....and every other case didn't split on it...now did it? Bye-the-bye, there's a 100yd group with my Handi...from the size of the holes it's prob'ly...how big?
bagdadjoe,
Let me start over. First of all welcome to the forum
Second I should restate I love the concept of the hornet I just haven't had one shoot good yet and I hate that!! I had A savage #40 that would shoot 3/4 to 1" but that was the best shooting hornet I have owned. I owned two rugers and was lucky to get them consistently shooting 1.5". Now these two groups my son shot this summer and I would call them acceptable both were 5 shot groups, and this is not a abnormal group for the gun it consistently shoots this way as a matter of a fact he was fifteen in these photo's and hasn't even begun to understand how to read the wind yet he just shot through it with the little 6br. I guess if you are happy with the groups you posted then the hornet may work for you, I on the other hand have put considerable time and money into my two Rugers and they won't even shoot as well as yours did so I am not interested in a hornet if that what you have to expect from them. I may go all out because I am stubborn and have my smith make me a bat actioned krieger,jewell, McMillian topped off with my S$B 5-25X56PMII and maybe ....just maybe it will shoot but I will still have my doubts till I see 5 in one hole, consistantly. Then and only then will I recant my statement on the inherently inaccurate hornets. Good luck to you on the range and happy shooting
Wayne.
Let me start over. First of all welcome to the forum
Second I should restate I love the concept of the hornet I just haven't had one shoot good yet and I hate that!! I had A savage #40 that would shoot 3/4 to 1" but that was the best shooting hornet I have owned. I owned two rugers and was lucky to get them consistently shooting 1.5". Now these two groups my son shot this summer and I would call them acceptable both were 5 shot groups, and this is not a abnormal group for the gun it consistently shoots this way as a matter of a fact he was fifteen in these photo's and hasn't even begun to understand how to read the wind yet he just shot through it with the little 6br. I guess if you are happy with the groups you posted then the hornet may work for you, I on the other hand have put considerable time and money into my two Rugers and they won't even shoot as well as yours did so I am not interested in a hornet if that what you have to expect from them. I may go all out because I am stubborn and have my smith make me a bat actioned krieger,jewell, McMillian topped off with my S$B 5-25X56PMII and maybe ....just maybe it will shoot but I will still have my doubts till I see 5 in one hole, consistantly. Then and only then will I recant my statement on the inherently inaccurate hornets. Good luck to you on the range and happy shooting
Wayne.
Attachments
Wayne...thankee very kindly. Glad to be here. Now, that's some shooting! Only way I've found to shoot a one hole group is to shoot one shot. I believe I can learn a lot hanging around you boys....apparently. I'm getting the Hornet back that I sold, I just found out tonight. I don't hope it will ever shoot that good, but I'm stubborn too and I want to see what I can wring out of it. Hopefully, I haven't reached my peak already. Back to the original question....I'd go with the CZ if the budget will allow it , and if it don't I'd still get a Handi...maybe ream a Hornet out to a 221 Fireball....or maybe stub the barrel and put a 6mm BR in it...or maybe.....
bagdadjoe,
I bought a handi rifle in hornet a couple of years ago, it had a real nice looking laminated stock,thats where the neat ended, it shot terrible, I hope yours shoots better. I bought a .17hmr it shot the same, I did have a bull barreled 25-06 that shot under a inch and got rid of it, I wished I would have kept it it would have been just fine for a carry around coyote gun. Back to the question @ hand I think if there was a factory gun in a .22 hornet that would shoot it would be a CZ452. My friend has a .17 hmr and it out shot my handi,savage, and marlin .17s and another friend has a .223 that is a real shooter. Good luck to you my friend with whatever rifle you end up with.
Wayne.
I bought a handi rifle in hornet a couple of years ago, it had a real nice looking laminated stock,thats where the neat ended, it shot terrible, I hope yours shoots better. I bought a .17hmr it shot the same, I did have a bull barreled 25-06 that shot under a inch and got rid of it, I wished I would have kept it it would have been just fine for a carry around coyote gun. Back to the question @ hand I think if there was a factory gun in a .22 hornet that would shoot it would be a CZ452. My friend has a .17 hmr and it out shot my handi,savage, and marlin .17s and another friend has a .223 that is a real shooter. Good luck to you my friend with whatever rifle you end up with.
Wayne.
I had a Handi Rifle in 22 Hornet back when I was a teen and into my early twenties that shot pretty well, especially considering my eyes have always sucked and it would group around an inch with irons at 100yds. Just a good, fun little gun that was cheap as heck to feed. I had a few hundred cases, most all purchased pre-fired from the brass bucket at the local shop, and would load them up and shoot them all every weekend, and sometimes again through the week. I couldn't account for all the squirrels and rabbits that gun took, but I know it was well into the hundreds. And if I missed, it was my fault. I only had a Lee Loader for it at the time, no "real" dies, and I scooped the powder with a Lee dipper as well, so my loading methods were archaic at best, yet it still shot very well. I even hand reamed it to a K-Hornet with a reamer and tap handle, though my Dad helped as he's a master machinist and knew a lot more than I.
I eventually traded it in, as it had started to lose accuracy over the lat summer I had it. But I bought it used and put over 15,000 rounds through it, so it's likely the barrel had finally had enough. I figure after several years, hundreds of dead animals, and over 15,000 rounds, I got my $90 out of it. ;D
I have been seriously considering getting another to go with my Savage 22WMR that I picked up recently, as the 22WMR does cost a bit more than a Hornet would to feed and doesn't have any more power.
The Savage lightweight varminters don't look all that appealing to me, with their over-sized rimfire actions. And the screwed and pinned barrels, that are sleeved as well ???, don't appeal to me, nor do the "studs" they call a recoil lug either. I do like the three lug bolt, it's extractor and the plunger-style ejector, but being encased in a rimfire action just totally ruins the whole deal for me. (I almost cried when Savage announced that this was the action they were going to use for the 5.7 FN, as I had wanted one for months and was ready to plop down my cash, until I saw what they put it in. It's why I own a 22WMR)
I am not a fan of the Rugers either. I have just never seen or heard of one being exceptionally accurate, only exceptionally inaccurate.
The CZ is what I would take from your 3 choices. I have used a CZ 527 Kevlar Varminter in .223, and it was one of the nicest and most accurate factory rifles I have ever shot. It handled excellently, the action operated quite well, and it just felt like a very solid little rifle. Not at all how I expected a small "mini-Mauser" to handle at all. It really felt every bit as solid as a full size rifle, yet weighed less. Although it was still very stable, even without the extra weight being there.
If I was to have whatever I wanted, it would either be a Handi Rifle, or I would build one using either a Savage action or a custom action. If I was going to walk around with it, Handi Rifle, hands down. Very compact and light, yet plenty accurate enough to make off-hand shots on small critters. If I was going to shoot from a bench or bi-pod and only travel short distances with the rifle, it would be a bolt action custom or semi custom.
Good luck in whatever you buy. And rent a K-Hornet reamer ASAP as well, it makes the brass last a lot longer and gives it a bit more oomph as well.
Kenny
I eventually traded it in, as it had started to lose accuracy over the lat summer I had it. But I bought it used and put over 15,000 rounds through it, so it's likely the barrel had finally had enough. I figure after several years, hundreds of dead animals, and over 15,000 rounds, I got my $90 out of it. ;D
I have been seriously considering getting another to go with my Savage 22WMR that I picked up recently, as the 22WMR does cost a bit more than a Hornet would to feed and doesn't have any more power.
The Savage lightweight varminters don't look all that appealing to me, with their over-sized rimfire actions. And the screwed and pinned barrels, that are sleeved as well ???, don't appeal to me, nor do the "studs" they call a recoil lug either. I do like the three lug bolt, it's extractor and the plunger-style ejector, but being encased in a rimfire action just totally ruins the whole deal for me. (I almost cried when Savage announced that this was the action they were going to use for the 5.7 FN, as I had wanted one for months and was ready to plop down my cash, until I saw what they put it in. It's why I own a 22WMR
)I am not a fan of the Rugers either. I have just never seen or heard of one being exceptionally accurate, only exceptionally inaccurate.
The CZ is what I would take from your 3 choices. I have used a CZ 527 Kevlar Varminter in .223, and it was one of the nicest and most accurate factory rifles I have ever shot. It handled excellently, the action operated quite well, and it just felt like a very solid little rifle. Not at all how I expected a small "mini-Mauser" to handle at all. It really felt every bit as solid as a full size rifle, yet weighed less. Although it was still very stable, even without the extra weight being there.
If I was to have whatever I wanted, it would either be a Handi Rifle, or I would build one using either a Savage action or a custom action. If I was going to walk around with it, Handi Rifle, hands down. Very compact and light, yet plenty accurate enough to make off-hand shots on small critters. If I was going to shoot from a bench or bi-pod and only travel short distances with the rifle, it would be a bolt action custom or semi custom.
Good luck in whatever you buy. And rent a K-Hornet reamer ASAP as well, it makes the brass last a lot longer and gives it a bit more oomph as well.
Kenny
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