Opinions on 38 Super?

[JimT]

See the links below for a little history on the heydays of the .38 Super:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-super-38/

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Public_Enemies#Dillinger.27s_Colt_.38_Super_.22Machine_Pistol.22

You can also google "Melvin Purvis or John Dillinger .38 Super" for more details on the cartridge of choice in Chicago in the 1930's.

.357 Magnum appears to have killed it dead in its tracks.

 

[Double Draw]

I have a 38 Super race gun built on a STI 2011 frame. I use Montana Gold 124 JHP 9mm bullets and find them to be the most accurate. This gun is actually for sale because I am getting into 3 Gun and am not shooting open. If interested PM me and I can send some pics.

 

[pburr]

I for one love the Super 38 Auto! It does everything a 9mm can, but a little faster with a little more power behind it in a modern barrel. It's true potential is reached with reloading though. I guess it is still viable today, but there is more competition out there with the .357 Sig and 40SW as the midrange between the 9mm and 45acp. On the plus side is that I can reload far cheaper that buying factory 357 Sig or 40SW defense ammo off the shelf.

Colt does make a lightweight Commander model in Super 38 which I am considering since 45auto is starting to get heavier on my hip as I age and I would prefer the Super over a 9mm any day!

 

[XTR]

I haven't played the USPSA/IPSC game since the late 90s but back then it became the hot shot round for race guns. The rules at the time precluded a 9x19 from making "Major" power factor, but the 38 Super was not so limited. With a fully supported ramped barrel you could run high velocity light bullets with less recoil and more muzzle pressure to run the comp.

Pretty much everyone who was serious was running it.

 

[CatShooter]

.357 Magnum appears to have killed it dead in its tracks.

The 357 didn't kill the 38 Super. It never died.

The cartridge was intended for export to countries that don't permit civilians to own military calibres (9mm Luger), so sales outside of the USA have always been very strong. You will find millions of them in MExico, SPain, Europe, etc...

IT picked up in the USA in the 90's with race guns and making "major".

 

[johara1]

Did you guys ever hear of the term Super Face? it best be a ramped barrel…… jim

 

[232]

"Did you guys ever hear of the term Super Face? it best be a ramped barrel…… jim"

Yes I have heard the term. How many 'superfaces' have been attributed to safe and sane loads?

 

[johara1]

It's due to reaching a major power …… if not they are the same as a 9mm……jim

 

[232]

Reaching for "major power" with light bullets is where the problem with superface comes from.

Saying a 38super is the same as a 9mm is akin to saying a 357 magnum is same as 38 special, or 445 supermag is same as 45 magnum. : Trying to make a 38special perform as a 357mag, or a 45mag do supermag performance will bring the house apart also.

Even the old 38acp has a slight edge over the 9mm, and some of the SA guns chambered in the 38auto may surprise you by not blowing up on the first shot.

I would do a heck of a trade for a La France 38super :-*

 

[Outrider27]

[/size][/quote] [br]
It was a reference to Obama's remark about small town midwesterners: "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion..." [br]
[/quote]

Just for reference, Obama made the clinger comment at a fundraiser in CA in his first run for president, and he was denigrating those of us in PA who believe in God and own guns (never understood why voters here in PA gave him a majority in this state after being referred to like that). But he undoubtedly feels the same way about midwesteners, so us "clingers" here in PA don't regard ourselves as the only ones he dislikes intensely. My bet is that there are a lot more bitter people out there all over the company than there were back then, thanks to him......

I caught your drift immediately; it was a great reference as far as I'm concerned.

Mike

 

[dickn52]

[/size]

[br]
It was a reference to Obama's remark about small town midwesterners: "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion..." [br]
[/quote]

Just for reference, Obama made the clinger comment at a fundraiser in CA in his first run for president, and he was denigrating those of us in PA who believe in God and own guns (never understood why voters here in PA gave him a majority in this state after being referred to like that). But he undoubtedly feels the same way about midwesteners, so us "clingers" here in PA don't regard ourselves as the only ones he dislikes intensely. My bet is that there are a lot more bitter people out there all over the company than there were back then, thanks to him......

I caught your drift immediately; it was a great reference as far as I'm concerned.

Mike
[/quote]
My guess is that Pa citizens agreed with him in the majority. And that means the cities voted for and the rural voted against.

 

[Titandriver]

XTR said:
"I haven't played the USPSA/IPSC game since the late 90s but back then it became the hot shot round for race guns. The rules at the time precluded a 9x19 from making "Major" power factor,"

Not true about the 9x19 being precluded by the rules from making major power factor in USPSA in the 90's. What the rulebook at the time stated was that the 9x19 had to have a minimum loaded overall length of 1.260. This made all but the heaviest of 9mm bullets illegal to use at the then 175 power factor. So the 9x19 was always legal to use, just had to make the OAL. Paul Miller from Colorado used it from the early '90's until he quit shooting.

Only down side to the Super is the availability and cost of brass compared to the 9x19.

 

[XTR]

XTR said:
"I haven't played the USPSA/IPSC game since the late 90s but back then it became the hot shot round for race guns. The rules at the time precluded a 9x19 from making "Major" power factor,"

Not true about the 9x19 being precluded by the rules from making major power factor in USPSA in the 90's. What the rulebook at the time stated was that the 9x19 had to have a minimum loaded overall length of 1.260. This made all but the heaviest of 9mm bullets illegal to use at the then 175 power factor. So the 9x19 was always legal to use, just had to make the OAL. Paul Miller from Colorado used it from the early '90's until he quit shooting.

Only down side to the Super is the availability and cost of brass compared to the 9x19.

That was a typo on my part. It should have read "since the late 80s"
It was my understanding at the time that the rules said no to the 9x19. I thought that was the motive to develop a 9x23 I think it was in the early 90s.


Flashback note:
I used to shoot at Mid Carolina. Back then I got to shoot with Merle Eddington before USPSA created a Master ranking. I remember when the announcement came out grandfathering he and a few others (Rob Lathem and about 5 others I think) into the classification.

I'm sure today many guys have gotten to see great shooters at work. At the time I was dabbling with a 45 with a drop in comp. I got to score for one of Merle's stages. That was the smoothest, fastest, not point dropped stage I'd ever seen in my life. The guy just seemed to sweep targets and holes appeared in the A zone. I realized that day that:

1 - It didn't matter what gun I had I wasn't likely to ever get that good.
2 - No matter how good I got I was never getting that smooth with a 45. Watching a Super just rain brass and stay on target was pretty enlightening.

 

[Triggerf16]

If you are going for a long 9mm, go 9x23. All the advantages of 38Super, and fixes several disadvantages. Hand loading will be mandatory.