Once Fired Brass Problems

[LHSmith]

The first time I noticed I had a problem was when I went to FLS the once fired new brass. The press downstroke was harder than usual and the upstroke was worse - explains the scratches on the lower part of the body. That's what caused me to try and rechamber a few of the fired empty rounds but the bolt would not close.

I am using Hornady One Shot on both the cases and the die and never have had a problem in the past. Could be the first time I guess.

This forum has more threads about problems with one- shot than any other lube.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Yes, coming out of the die scratched, not the chamber.
As mentioned above, it's possible that grit was on the first case to be resized and went unnoticed. But, there are a few scratches so that indicates enough grit to be ordinarily noticeable ?
Thanks for the pic.

A very strong copper bore cleaner should remove most of the brass inside the die. Then polish the die with a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop chucked in a drill. Apply J&B Bore paste, automotive rubbing compound, Mothers Mag and Wheel Polish etc. to the mop to polish the inside of the die.

I started wet tumbling after I got my first AR15 rifle to scrub the cases clean and remove any grit sticking to the brass. Any firearm that throws perfectly good brass away and makes you go look for it, will have a good chance of scratching your dies.

 

[LHSmith]

Other than poor die lube ,an overly hot load ( higher outdoor temps?) would explain the sizing difficulty even with the oversize die. If you were neck sizing your brass only before getting your custom die, those cases may not be able to be resized enough to permit easy extraction.

 

[Uncle Ed]

This forum has more threads about problems with one- shot than any other lube.

Hornady OneShot does not contain dirt or grit that can scratch your cases.

Efficient Big-Batch Case Lubrication — Best Methods​

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/06/efficient-big-batch-case-lubrication-best-methods/

The U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit uses Hornady OneShot, they even read the instructions before using it.

 

[Martin52]

When I go with a custom die (Whidden) I send in 1x Fired cases -unsized. Not sure what you sent was the proper brass prep they want.

I do get your point about the die being oversize, possibly as a result of the 3 fired cases being used, but wouldn't that reduce the scratch marks because the case would then be looser in the die ? The scratch marks indicate to me there was either grit or the die was too tight.

 

[Martin52]

A very strong copper bore cleaner should remove most of the brass inside the die. Then polish the die with a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop chucked in a drill. Apply J&B Bore paste, automotive rubbing compound, Mothers Mag and Wheel Polish etc. to the mop to polish the inside of the die.

I started wet tumbling after I got my first AR15 rifle to scrub the cases clean and remove any grit sticking to the brass. Any firearm that throws perfectly good brass away and makes you go look for it, will have a good chance of scratching your dies.

Never used copper cleaner in my dies but I'll try that. Every few months I clean my dies with Hoppes, or similar, then finish with Iosso on a patch chucked in a drill.

I use Lyman tumbling media, sometimes it gets stuck inside the base of the case.

 

[Martin52]

Had the same thing happen with the scratches and it was brass stuck to the inside of my die.
seems to happen alot with my 308 Norma brass and not with any of my other calibers.
Im constantly re-cleaning and polishing my 308 die as its got a habit of brass sticking to the sides...bad.
Sweets soak over night and 600 to 800 grit does the job for a short while and then..its back to scratches again...

I am going to try BT copper cleaner inside the die, could be part of the problem especially after 'scraping' these 25 cases recently.

 

[Martin52]

Narrowing this down to:
New brass - still have to check volume.
Hot load - pressure closer to max than moderate, will back off with these cases next time around. Used 44.8 gr H4895 some time ago and that grouped well. Took it up to 45.6 before settling on 45.2.
Grit - on a fired case getting into the die (Lyman media most likely)
FLS Die - custom, based on three 3x fired cases - using 3x fired cases resulted in die being oversize? Could still have produced scratches due to grit whilst being oversize. Re-checked die mfr website - does not state 3 x fired.

Have since used copper cleaner on the die, flushed then polished with Iosso and left lubed in the box.

Thanks all. Very helpful.

Martin

 

[holstil]

Martin, I would;

Inspect and clean the die and chamber thoroughly then try another new piece of fired brass.
Back off the virgin load. Possibly variance?
All else being the same, should produce same results as in past.
The only thing different is new brass or dirt, right?

FWIW, all of my dies, custom or factory, size that same approximate distance on the case. I don't care for my dies touching the shell holder, preferring .005"-.008" gap at peak.

 

[K22]

Barnard P with 30 inch Krieger barrel.

The cause of the scratching indicates the FLS die as the cases were not scratched coming out of the chamber.

I generally bump the shoulders only 0.001/2 and to date having a few thou gap does not seem to have affected anything. Measuring setback with a barrel stub on my calipers, with the fired primers removed before FLS.

This particular batch of 155.5 FB's are ~ 0.050 off the lands.

Got your feedback - Doesn't sound like there are any issues with the points I raised.

Lot of people use "One Shot". I did for years and never had a problem with stuck cases in the die. However I did experience some more difficult sizing issues with 243 and 308 cases. Switched to Imperial Sizing Wax about 5 or 6 years ago. Mainly to save money because a tin of that last a very long time. It is more time consuming to apply but for me it did a much better job sizing cases and I obtained more uniform shoulder bumps with it. Just something to think about but I don't believe the lube is causing your problem.

Sometime certain tumbler media residue can create problems with sizing, especially the treated variety. It can be removed by spraying with mineral spirits the thoroughly drying the cases.

Since you ruled out the rifle chamber as the cause, that leaves the sizing process as the probable culprit. You may have to experiment with a different sizing die and / or brand of cases. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

 

[Martin52]

Inspect and clean the die and chamber thoroughly then try another new piece of fired brass.
Back off the virgin load. Possibly variance?
The only thing different is new brass or dirt, right?

FWIW, all of my dies, custom or factory, size that same approximate distance on the case. I don't care for my dies touching the shell holder, preferring .005"-.008" gap at peak.

Just cleaned the die, copper cleaner and Iosso. Looks good. Any grit was probably tumbling media that I know occasionally get stuck inside the case near the flash hole.
Will be dropping the load at the next reloading session and keeping this batch of cases seperate until I'm comfortable they're OK, or not.
The only thing different was that the cases were new, Lapua palma.
Regarding the gap between the shell holder and the die, interesting that you prefer this. It's something I have queried but has never really manifested itself in any problem to date, so maybe it is OK.

 

[Martin52]

Switched to Imperial Sizing Wax about 5 or 6 years ago. .

Sometime certain tumbler media residue can create problems with sizing, especially the treated variety. It can be removed by spraying with mineral spirits the thoroughly drying the cases.

Since you ruled out the rifle chamber as the cause, that leaves the sizing process as the probable culprit. You may have to experiment with a different sizing die and / or brand of cases. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I used Imperial some time ago and still have a tin. Switched to One Shot to avoid having to tumble a second time to remove the wax. I didn't try mineral spirits but will do so.

 

[LHSmith]

Although, many do not, the 1-shot instructions say " After sizing wipe each case and remove the remaining lubricant." I just wipe the Imperial off with a cloth.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I use Lyman tumbling media, sometimes it gets stuck inside the base of the case.

Are you using the red Lyman rouge treated walnut media?

The red polishing compound plus using the "dry" Hornady OneShot could be causing your problem.

I stopped using the Lyman treated walnut media and switched to untreated petshop lizard litter and Nufinish.

Red Rouge Polishing Compound Powder​

• A very fine powder of ferric oxide. Used with Walnut Tumbling Media to polish brass shell cases, coins and jewelry. Inexpensive tumbler polish.

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)​

https://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/141-polished-brass-a-stuck-cases

Polished Brass & Stuck Cases​

Highly polished brass will have a greater tendency to stick in your resizing die. Clean your brass before resizing but save the polishing until after resizing. A slight amount of brass oxide enhances the function of the case lube which you have applied.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Why hasn’t the volume of the new brass been checked yet? It’s a very quick and simple process. Takes no time to set up and verify capacity. No matter what is wrong with the die or lube, there still seems to be a more important issue with overpressure.

I’ve tried a million lubes and always end up going back to Imperial sizing wax. It’s the only lube I fully trust to perform reliably. Just give them a quick wipe in a cloth right after full sizing.

 

[Martin52]

I'm using Lyman media with corn cob, its green in colour, not the red version. Will try the local pet store if you think what I'm using is polishing the brass.

Are you using the red Lyman rouge treated walnut media?

 

[Martin52]

Why hasn’t the volume of the new brass been checked yet? It’s a very quick and simple process. Takes no time to set up and verify capacity. No matter what is wrong with the die or lube, there still seems to be a more important issue with overpressure.

I’ve tried a million lubes and always end up going back to Imperial sizing wax. It’s the only lube I fully trust to perform reliably. Just give them a quick wipe in a cloth right after full sizing.

An average of 5 cases (5 of the 'problem' scratched cases and 5 'good' cases) gives the following:

1. Scratched cases weigh 231.7 gr with water and including a spent primer.
Without water, including the spent primer, the weight is 175.1 gr
Capacity therefore 56.6 gr

2. Using a 'good' case from a different batch for comparison:

With water: 234.1, w/o water 177.0
Capacity therefore 57.1gr

The problem cases have less capacity, by 0.5gr.

I usually weight empty, unprimed, fully prepped cases and sort by 0.5 gr.

Martin.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

An average of 5 cases (5 of the 'problem' scratched cases and 5 'good' cases) gives the following:

1. Scratched cases weigh 231.7 gr with water and including a spent primer.
Without water, including the spent primer, the weight is 175.1 gr
Capacity therefore 56.6 gr

2. Using a 'good' case from a different batch for comparison:

With water: 234.1, w/o water 177.0
Capacity therefore 57.1gr

The problem cases have less capacity, by 0.5gr.

I usually weight empty, unprimed, fully prepped cases and sort by 0.5 gr.

Martin.

1/2gr less at that capacity is less than 1% difference which equates to about only 1.5-2% increase in chamber pressure which isn’t much.

 

[max1120]

Agree with Leed also a little to hot

 

[cw308]

I never tried the spray on lube , I started with the RCBS case lube , tried the imperial sizing wax but switched back to the RCBS . After getting a stuck case , whenever I feel a slight resistance when raising the ram ,I lower and add just alittle more with my fingers and it makes such a difference . I also with a Q tip lube the inside of the necks , if the case when sizing feels alittle tight just manually all lube and see if it makes a difference . It could be that simple. I'm staying with RCBS Case Lube.