"Oh... that's a flier." Really?

[garandman]

Putting this here as this forum has many of the calibers I'm seeing at benchrest competitions. But the concept applies to most all precision / benchrest shooting.

I'm trying to decide what *really* can legitimately called a "flier"... and isn't actually shooter error.

Possibles definitions / descriptions / conditions:

1. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed.

2. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed, I had good hold and follow thru, it actually impacted outside where the majority of my shots impacted.

3. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed, I had good hold and follow thru, it actually impacted outside where the other 29 of my 30 shots impacted.

In my case, its 22 rimfire. I'll have 2-3 shots stray out of the dime size circle that the other 30 shots impact.

Is it more likely shooter error....or "fliers?" How wouold you define a "flier?" Or do they really not exist ? (discounting the affects of wind / mirage)

DIsclaimer: In my rimfire testing, in addition to testing ammo, I'm also testing how frequently to clean the rifle (full cleaning vs. dry patch)

 

[joshb]

When I make the ammo, build the gun and pull the trigger, ALL fliers are my fault.
22 rimfire? It’s ALWAYS the ammo that causes the flier!

 

[mikeeg02]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/crappy-target-thread.3965925/


Theres a good thread on the subject lol

 

[Centuriator]

I never assume when I do not hit in a tight group it is a fault to be attributed to anything/anyone but ... the shooter.

 

[Clancy]

I think the word gets overused and misused a lot.

I have had a couple of bullets go 6-10” out of small groups before. I’d call those flyers.

 

[garandman]

Target #2 5th shot... all by itself... I think that *could* be a flier...

 

[JMayo]

I say I call shots. most go near where I intended. When it goes to that WTF area ... it's a flyer.
Eley 22 ammo is consistent enough to see the flyers. I shoot 3-5 shots in a group Then get another poa. Lately Eley is known to have a couple in every box. Hopefully they'll be in the sighters when I shoot for x score. Out of the 10 ring won't cut it in unlimited class.

 

[garandman]

Lately Eley is known to have a couple in every box. Hopefully they'll be in the sighters when I shoot for x score. Out of the 10 ring won't cut it in unlimited class.

I find they happen mostly in the first 30 rounds after cleaning.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Fliers come from bulk ammo.
Twenty dollar a box wide shots are impacts of uninteded consqusence(sic)

 

[mac86951]

Putting this here as this forum has many of the calibers I'm seeing at benchrest competitions. But the concept applies to most all precision / benchrest shooting.

I'm trying to decide what *really* can legitimately called a "flier"... and isn't actually shooter error.

Possibles definitions / descriptions / conditions:

1. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed.

2. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed, I had good hold and follow thru, it actually impacted outside where the majority of my shots impacted.

3. The shot didn't impact where I carefully aimed, I had good hold and follow thru, it actually impacted outside where the other 29 of my 30 shots impacted.

In my case, its 22 rimfire. I'll have 2-3 shots stray out of the dime size circle that the other 30 shots impact.

Is it more likely shooter error....or "fliers?" How wouold you define a "flier?" Or do they really not exist ? (discounting the affects of wind / mirage)

DIsclaimer: In my rimfire testing, in addition to testing ammo, I'm also testing how frequently to clean the rifle (full cleaning vs. dry patch)

By my definition, fliers are those shots that I know will be out of family, or out of group. If I miss my fundamentals, I'll call that shot a flier. I've missed my fundamentals and had the shot land right in the group too. Out of family are examples of sighter or fouler loads. Say the bullet / brass / concentricity / or some such isn't up to snuff, but I'm shooting it anyway.

A shot that lands out of group bit I don't know why? Those are only fliers if I tell my GF. I need all the help I can get, she out shoots me, but I'm way more tacticool.

-Mac

 

[JMayo]

I find they happen mostly in the first 30 rounds after cleaning.

My gun gets cleaned every 40 rounds. Life of a match grade rifle.
Starts being unpredictable around 60 rounds if not cleaned.
This is br x shooting Ara, ir50 ....
No one hundred/two hundred ....

 

[jpx2rk]

Apparently it open for interpretation. LOL

If I pull or jerk the shot, can't really call it a "flyer", it's a jerk or pull to me. If it's one of my reloads, then it MIGHT be one of those WTF moments, I wonder what happened with that shot and I move on. It's usually that 5th shot in a group, or maybe the 1st, but maybe those other 4 shots are the ones mis-behaving, not that 1st or 5th shot.

With RF ammo, you get what you pay for the most part, I try not to take my ARA/ABRA matches too seriously, I'm there for the fun and friends, my scores don't matter.

The world is not gonna end because I missed a shot. Well, it better not anyways.

 

[jimmymac]

To me, a flier is anything out of the norm where the bullet didn't fly to my anticipated POI regardless of shooter error or not. Calling shots and having a good enough gun to help show me where I went astray is key. I'm okay when I know a flier is caused by me. I make errors all the time in gun handling and wind calls so I work on those things every time I shoot. I can improve on that stuff if I pay attention. The fliers that drive me crazy are the random shots where my brain can't process what just happened. Like when everything feels right through the whole shot process yet the bullet prints to a POI that was not anticipated. Those are the tough ones to process.

 

[garandman]

To me, a flier is anything out of the norm where the bullet didn't fly to my anticipated POI regardless of shooter error or not. Calling shots and having a good enough gun to help show me where I went astray is key. I'm okay when I know a flier is caused by me. I make errors all the time in gun handling and wind calls so I work on those things every time I shoot. I can improve on that stuff if I pay attention. The fliers that drive me crazy are the random shots where my brain can't process what just happened. Like when everything feels right through the whole shot process yet the bullet prints to a POI that was not anticipated. Those are the tough ones to process.

I'm working on "calling" all my shots. Evry once in a while I get lazy bone and forget to do it, or don't follow thru well enuf to make a good call. Its cheaper to do this (re) training on a 22 rf.

And I *do* beleive a shooter / reloader can do everything right, and have a shot just go haywire. That said.... I try to improve my skillset from every shot already fired. I blame me, and resolve to do better.

 

[joshb]

I’ll say this: I like fliers. They keep me from getting bored. Think about it. They keep me humble, too. I like a challenge. If I were to go to the range and shoot 0’s with all my guns, every trip, I think I’d take up golf.

 

[jimmymac]

I’ll say this: I like fliers. They keep me from getting bored. Think about it. They keep me humble, too. I like a challenge. If I were to go to the range and shoot 0’s with all my guns, every trip, I think I’d take up golf.

If I shot zero’s every time, I’d have written a book like Tony Boyer!

 

[garandman]

My gun gets cleaned every 40 rounds. Life of a match grade rifle.
Starts being unpredictable around 60 rounds if not cleaned.
This is br x shooting Ara, ir50 ....
No one hundred/two hundred ....

My centerfire get cleaned every range trip... 2-3 sighters gets me back on target / tight groups.

My rimfire (CZ 457 w/ Lilja bbl) doesn't like to be cleaned alot. Dry patches every 100 rounds or so... full cleaning every 500 or so (when accuracy drops off)

This was the recommendation Vudoo made for their gun. I ordered one and will test it out soon, hopefully.

 

[Nature Boy]

What about the shot that you know you jerked but when you look it’s still in the group.

Do you call that a “flyer” or just keep it to yourself

 

[mikeeg02]

What about the shot that you know you jerked but when you look it’s still in the group.

Do you call that a “flyer” or just keep it to yourself

Shhhhhh if you keep quiet, nobody knows about those except you and Jesus lol.