Off topic-GENERATOR

[6ShotsOr5?]

They finally delivered our 25 KW liquid cooled Generac this week, it is sitting on it’s pad waiting to be hooked up.
It runs on natural gas.
We ordered it last May, tremendous backlogView attachment 1299984

@jackieschmidt we live in Kingwood. There are 7 houses on our cul-de-sac. One family already had a generator, and five more families ordered them last April or May. They have just now finished with the installs.

 

[dave@aDave]

The most important thing (IMHO) is to read the manual. There is a lot of information that you should know and its written for your specific model.
I sized my 20KW by adding up all of the major electrical users (my house is all electric). Add about another 10% to 15% for lighting, TV, etc. Add a little more for a safety factor.
The KW rating is when you use Propane. Natural gas has less Btu's so you will lose about 10% to 20% of the nameplate rating depending on what the gas company sends to you (natural gas is still cheaper).
The local electrical code here required two digital load managers even though the generator could handle the load. One cuts out the clothes dryer when the water heater come on. The other one cuts out the kitchen stove when the heat pump and air handler are on.
Have it serviced (frequency and voltage, oil, filter, battery check, etc) yearly. I got mine because I have Sleep Apnea an my wife has breathing problems. We depend on it and I'm not going to scrimp on maintenance.
Lastly, when the power goes off...... turn off all of the porch lights and make sure any inside lights can't be seen from the outside. If the people going down the street or across your back yard see that you have power they will be coming over for a hot meal or hot shower. I don't mind at all to share with my neighbors or family but I'm not running a boarding house.

 

[dryhumor]

Depending on an installed charger, they can have both boost and float modes. Some chargers disconnect from the battery circuit during an outage via a relay, when AC returns to normal the charger re engages at boost level (higher DC/current) then drops to float level (lower DC/current).

If the generator has a charging alternator, it’s output current normally spikes in current a few seconds after starting to “boost” the battery after the discharge process of starting. A 100 amp alternator will generally peak around 40-60-80 amps, depending on the battery quality then drop to 2-4-6 amps. Checking alternator output is something that the owner or maintainer should check and make note of. A DC current clamp is all that’s needed. One that records min max is a plus.

I haven’t commissioned a Generac in several years, not since the newest controller has been out, but the above is a good general rule of thumb.

 

[Punkinslinger]

We just installed a 22kw LP version last week, I found this video interesting for those of us in colder climates.

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[FNSafari]

We've had a 6.5 Kw gasoline powered Yamaha for years. It was sized to meet our needs, which we toned down during a power outage. It produces 30 amp 220 so it runs the one 220 motor we need, our well pump. Cooking is done on a gas range top and gas oven. The oven doesn't work without electricity so even on the generator we don't use it. The gas top is just fine. We don't use a dryer at all, nor the microwave during outages.

We have water, heat lights and stove with room to spare. All in a 6.5 Kw unit. The upside to a smaller generator is it uses less fuel. If one must run the whole house as if connected to the grid big is necessary I guess. There are many ways to approach picking a generator output wise.

 

[AckleymanII]

IN the event of a natural disaster, or grid failure, do electrical pumps push the natural gas through the lines?
Hummm....

 

[hoz53]

IN the event of a natural disaster, or grid failure, do electrical pumps push the natural gas through the lines?
Hummm....

Usually engines run the pumps at pumping stations and they usually run off the gas they are receiving/pumping- there are back up systems but if a disaster gets bad enough it could all fail.

 

[DaveTooley]

During our first hurricane, Florence September 2018, I discovered I had all the heat I wanted, gas pack downstairs. No AC. I have two electric hot water heaters. They connected the one for the kitchen not the bathrooms. Dumb when you have a gas cook top. One person can get three hot/warm showers from a 40 gallon water heater over a three day period if you're stingy with the hot water. It took several jumper wires but I Macgyvered things so I had both AC and hot water. Just not at the same time. I would turn the breaker on for the water heater for an hour after turning off the AC. I now have pictures and jumpers all labeled as to where they go. It takes about ten minutes and I have satellite TV, cold beer and AC.

 

[FNSafari]

Propane. Doesn't go bad like gasoline. 500 gallon tank which you can not rent only purchase. (at least in this area)
Even if a diesel was made (must be?) diesel will grow algae requiring an additive. I wanted a care free fuel and one that left the EPA out of the equation.
Consumption? No clue at this point as the moment all was installed and running there has been no power failure in this area.
The decision to get this was made quite apparent to to me in a most unfortunate way. My best friend for what ever reason always wanted a Corvette. He had the money. He died never having bought the Corvette. I want everything in my house to work whether it's my well, furnace or central a/c. I will not go to my grave without it. I have worked my whole life (so far at least)

ps No natural gas in my area...it would have been my first choice

Use 100LL aviation gas, if you can find it locally. I change it out once a year and burn it in my JD riding mower we use to collect lawn clippings for garden mulch. It has NEVER given me any issues with my two gasoline generators. A bit more expensive but worth it.

 

[FNSafari]

Usually engines run the pumps at pumping stations and they usually run off the gas they are receiving/pumping- there are back up systems but if a disaster gets bad enough it could all fail.

As in an earthquake with lots of underground utilities damage.

 

[lightman]

I bought a Generac 22KW generator with an automatic transfer switch in 2015 when I retired. Something about not having a bucket truck parked in the driveway bothered my Wife! I had to run natural gas to my house as we were all electric. But gas was right on the lot line so it was mostly free except for hiring a plumber for the connections to the unit. I did the electrical myself.

I had a good bit of trouble with mine but it was covered under warranty and its been working fine, once the bugs were worked out. (knock on wood)

If I were to do it again I would buy the next size and get the liquid cooled engine.

I looked at lots of options but the natural gas just had too much going for it. I have a diesel tractor and looked at PTO driven units, larger diesel units, ect but natural gas and an automatic transfer switch was just too convenient.

 

[M-61]

Use 100LL aviation gas, if you can find it locally.

Sure as will non-ethanol. I should have clarified my statement "Doesn't go bad like gasoline". At least not 'go bad' in a reasonable time which 10% ethanol will very quickly.
However I did not want gasoline nor diesel. (the EPA, county, town, rules are very prohibitive here.) Non-ethanol is NOT sold in my county.
Transfer switches are mandatory as well as permits. Naturally the permit costs $150.00
the hook-up can only be done by a county and town licensed electrician. You can hook the propane up yourself but no one will fill it unless they (or someone licensed) have made the hook up so basically you can't. All of this in a very rural area. Well water and septic so my 1st choice of natural gas does not exist here as you might imagine.
So this all gives you the permits which you need should you decide to sell your home.
When I was done $16,000 was the total cost. I knew this going in so it was not a surprise.

 

[FNSafari]

Sure as will non-ethanol. I should have clarified my statement "Doesn't go bad like gasoline". At least not 'go bad' in a reasonable time which 10% ethanol will very quickly.
However I did not want gasoline nor diesel. (the EPA, county, town, rules are very prohibitive here.) Non-ethanol is NOT sold in my county.
Transfer switches are mandatory as well as permits. Naturally the permit costs $150.00
the hook-up can only be done by a county and town licensed electrician. You can hook the propane up yourself but no one will fill it unless they (or someone licensed) have made the hook up so basically you can't. All of this in a very rural area. Well water and septic so my 1st choice of natural gas does not exist here as you might imagine.
So this all gives you the permits which you need should you decide to sell your home.
When I was done $16,000 was the total cost. I knew this going in so it was not a surprise.

My installation uses a cutoff switch or transfer switch, I wouldn't do it any other way. We've had the Yamaha for well over 20 years and its as dependable now as it was when new. I do have to go to the barn, start it, hook up a short cord from it to the plug in to the tfx switch which goes underground to the house. Good exercise. If I were to replace it I would probably go with a permanent installed generator with an auto transfer switch.

I'm rural as ell too but we still live free, sort of, in Maine. I'm all for the propane and electrical being done by a licensed person as its the line crew's safety we are talking about and the safety of the occupants of the house.

We recently installed a 35 Kw's worth of solar panels to a Tesla 5Kw battery which will power the house for a few days if we use the generator when we are home. The battery will keep the house warm, run the well pump and some lights. The excess goes into the grid for billing offsets per month. Any excess evaporates at the end of the year and we start over again.

 

[Ggmac]

I have a 20Kwh Generac. Have them set the weekly run time for 10 to 11 minutes, that may help some. The batteries in my unit last about 3 years.
Also have the outside of your house sprayed for ants, especially around the generator. It seems that ants love to munch on the electronics circuit board inside. Cost me $900 to replace the circuit board. If you have a detached garage, have them spray around the outside for the same reason (electronics in vehicles).
Wonder what the little devils lived on before electronics. Where there that many picnics?

Jaguars , really , at least in south Florida

 

[dave@aDave]

my 34KW general has been running 20 minutes a week and through a few short outages on a 500 gallon propane tank that still shows full after 4.5 years. It would probably use the full 500 gallons in a 10 day full outage though

Using propane heat, and my 20kw propane generator, my 500 gallon tank (that they only fill 80%or so) would last probably a week or less if I started out full. My model is around 2.25 gallons per hr at 50% load, I don't know what kind of load it would run at. Maybe if we kept the high demand electric appliances off, it might run near or less than 50%?

Ideally, I would like a 1000 gallon tank to be really prepared.

I figured out that if my 20Kw generator ran at full throttle/load for 24 hours that it would cost me about $14.60/day on natural gas. That's $438.00/month.
The electrical company cost around $5.00/day.
It didn't take me long to figure out that when the power goes out and my generator starts, my checkbook begins to smoke.
So.... when the power goes out I let the generator run for an hour or so. if the utility company hasn't fixed it by then I start going through the house shutting down what is not needed.

 

[jackieschmidt]

IN the event of a natural disaster, or grid failure, do electrical pumps push the natural gas through the lines?
Hummm....

I have lived through countless hurricanes, and then the big freeze of last February. I cannot recall the Natural Gas ever going out.

 

[FNSafari]

In 1998 we were hit with a massive ice storm that knocked out power from Quebec down through the northern New England states. We were out for 7 days. We lived on a fairly remote pond at the time. No generator. We had a big Vermont Castings Defiant wood stove, and a gas cook top range. We cooked on the gas range top, heated water on the range and the wood stove and the house with the wood stove. We got by rather comfortably. I know different folk define comfortably differently, but that's the beauty of it, you can decide how you want things when you lose power and get a generator to match your desires.

 

[Punkinslinger]

I should add, we installed a dedicated 500 gallon LP tank, at full load it’ll give us 5 days give or take and I know it will not go bad.