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Off hand shooters any tips

Wolfdog91

Silver $$ Contributor
Realized a few days ago I've been almost exclusively a supported shooter for the last two years. Either bipod read bag , quad sticks , regular sticks , tripod , front rest rear bag ect . Used to love qual with my 16 or M4 so decided it would be fun to see just how bad I was now especially with the scope cam. And well... 5rd in a 8" group @100yd o_O it was fun but definitely a bit of an eye opener. So not trying to be super great or anything when it comes to off hand or positional( not going to lie kinda wanna build a cheap little m16 a 2 flat top now just for this :D ) just not as terrible. Any tips y'all got ? Figure there's a few Positional guys on here.

 
Get yourself an air rifle. They are the best tool to learn how to shoot offhand. They are long barrel time is the key.
Read: Research the NRA website for info on shooting standing. Additional resources would be David Tubb book on Highpower shooting. If u can find a copy, books on Olympic position shooting ( Ways of the Rifle) detail techniques.
 
Get yourself an air rifle. They are the best tool to learn how to shoot offhand. They are long barrel time is the key.
Read: Research the NRA website for info on shooting standing. Additional resources would be David Tubb book on Highpower shooting. If u can find a copy, books on Olympic position shooting ( Ways of the Rifle) detail techniques.
You know funny you mention that ! I actually have a few air guns , used to be really big into them kinda stopped though. Anyhow not sure why I stopped using them for training
IMG_20240218_150139089.jpg.4067affd077abba50d0c2cc93524da85 (1).jpgIMG_20240218_150436758.jpg.d31e87a75d9eca894c28f6b370dce36b (1).jpg
 
From years and years of rifle Silhouette shooting.
1) There is no "easy button" find a position that you can repeat and start training.
2) Muscle memory and conditioning go hand in hand. DRY FIRE IS YOUR FRIEND, even if only 10 good dry-fire shots per day, if done correctly you will develop the process and get more proficient.
3) Accept that you have a wobble area and work with that fact. Try to minimize it but accept what you can in regards to the amount of time your aiming device is ON the target.
4) Trigger timing, since you cannot hold a perfect center sight picture for an extended period of time, simply train your eye and trigger to coordinate when the gun going off will result in an on-target impact. It doesn't matter if it is the edge of a steel plate or the edge of the 10-ring, accept what your ability gives and keep working, the results will start to show up.
 
Get the Army Rifle Marksmanship Manual. Read it then practice with a 22 LR or air rifle.

When in Army Basic Training at Fort Campbell, we spent 80 hours of the rifle range leaning how to shoot in different positions. They took guys who never touch a rifle before and turned them into serviceable marksmen. Thus, in my opinion, the Army knows how to train people to shoot. Read their book.

In my humble opinion, practical shooting in real world conditions is the ultimate test and desired skill to have. Being able to hit your target of choice under any field conditions is my goal as a practical shooter.

I spend 99% of my range time in shooting off cross sticks which allows me some productive support with ultimate mobility. There is no terrain in which I cannot engage a target to take a shot with a reasonable chance of success within my range of capabilities.

I don't need any "stinking" benches. :rolleyes: :oops:
 
Realized a few days ago I've been almost exclusively a supported shooter for the last two years. Either bipod read bag , quad sticks , regular sticks , tripod , front rest rear bag ect . Used to love qual with my 16 or M4 so decided it would be fun to see just how bad I was now especially with the scope cam. And well... 5rd in a 8" group @100yd o_O it was fun but definitely a bit of an eye opener. So not trying to be super great or anything when it comes to off hand or positional( not going to lie kinda wanna build a cheap little m16 a 2 flat top now just for this :D ) just not as terrible. Any tips y'all got ? Figure there's a few Positional guys on here.

PRACTICE!
 
From years and years of rifle Silhouette shooting.
1) There is no "easy button" find a position that you can repeat and start training.
2) Muscle memory and conditioning go hand in hand. DRY FIRE IS YOUR FRIEND, even if only 10 good dry-fire shots per day, if done correctly you will develop the process and get more proficient.
3) Accept that you have a wobble area and work with that fact. Try to minimize it but accept what you can in regards to the amount of time your aiming device is ON the target.
4) Trigger timing, since you cannot hold a perfect center sight picture for an extended period of time, simply train your eye and trigger to coordinate when the gun going off will result in an on-target impact. It doesn't matter if it is the edge of a steel plate or the edge of the 10-ring, accept what your ability gives and keep working, the results will start to show up.
I met a guy in TX and he took me to his rifle range and as he got out of his truck he dragged out a 7mm Mauser Improved and offhand shot a life sized elk metal target at 700yds. He told me exactly what you typed. With him coaching I could hit the elk numerous times as well as a life sized deer at 400 yds. I was a lot younger then.

The guy's name was Harold Brougton.
 
Get the Army Rifle Marksmanship Manual. Read it then practice with a 22 LR or air rifle.

When in Army Basic Training at Fort Campbell, we spent 80 hours of the rifle range leaning how to shoot in different positions. They took guys who never touch a rifle before and turned them into serviceable marksmen. Thus, in my opinion, the Army knows how to train people to shoot. Read their book.

In my humble opinion, practical shooting in real world conditions is the ultimate test and desired skill to have. Being able to hit your target of choice under any field conditions is my goal as a practical shooter.

I spend 99% of my range time in shooting off cross sticks which allows me some productive support with ultimate mobility. There is no terrain in which I cannot engage a target to take a shot with a reasonable chance of success within my range of capabilities.

I don't need any "stinking" benches. :rolleyes: :oops:
Actually think I still have a copy from when I was in. Idk though something's about hitting epsic's with an iron sighted M4 or m16 is wayyy easier the then this it feels ..... Then again an most of the army targets are what 20 something wide , just gotta get the right hold and boom.

Funny story, spend most of my lil 6 years in with a FSC supporting three combat arms company's so we where , as other pog units called us, more infantry minded. Think passing score army wide at the time was 28 out of 40 ? I think ... All I know for us 32 was bare minimum Lord help you if you had a optics. And in my platoon 34-36 was expected. Anyhow that was just the norm.for 5 years . Well last year in they swapped me to a stereotypical pog quartermaster unit and Lord help me . These folks where ecstatic over passing with like a high 20 and I'm over here blowing smoke with a 34 . They could not understand it lol.
 
Years ago, the AMU at Ft. Benning had a High Power clinic for civilians. My brother n I attended. At that time I was classified as a Master XC shooter with my M14. I had been working on shooting standing for most of the year. Many of the marksmanship manuals indicated to accept ur wobble area n slow squeeze. Just was not working for me so I sought the AMUs help.
When the AMU instructors had me on the electronic trainer ( Noptel) they observed: u have a 10 ring hold for the first 3-5 sec and u are not shooting. Don’t overhold the shot, shoot the first 10 u see. Best advice I ever received.
My standing scores went up into the 97-99 range. Try as I might, could just not seem to clean standing.
I saw a few who could clean that 200 yd standing target and I asked them how they did it.
Easy, just do not accept a bad shot. Wisdom!
 
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You're not alone, most people suck at positional shooting. Myself included. Tried High Power standing at 200. No sling allowed. I was preying to be on paper. The guys who knew what they were doing were counting X's, 10's and 9's. Not sure all of mine were on paper but some were. F Class with high tech rests, that's another story.
 
Another Silhouette shooter here... Air rifle, smallbore, and high power. Shooting at life-sized Rams at 500 meters is quite the hoot!

As others have said; build your stance, be patient enough to wait for the good shot, and practice taking the first good shot you can. It also helps to have someone check your stance, watch for a "slappy" trigger finger, and make sure you're maintaining a full-value follow-through.

Standing/off-hand is the best!
 
Figure out ur stance to maintain ur NPA. Once u figure out how to move ur rear foot to change elevation or windage, NPA starts taking care of itself.
Work on shooting that first centered (10) shot u see.
Learn to love off hand. The mental game is important.
 
NPA, set up in position with your eyes closed where you think the target is. Open them and see where your aimed. Adjust your feet and try again. I shoot irons (A2) so I have to focus on front sight. A good 2 stage trigger in an AR will help break shots when you see that 10 ring coming centered up. Don't shoot when your wobble is leaving the 10 ring.
 
A little offhand perspective from a Highpower Across the Course simpleton.

As others have said and mentioned above, there's some good books/manuals on there. "Ways of the Rifle-2009"is definitely a good one, even if seemingly geared more toward the air rifle/smallbore shooter.

Natural Point of Aim. It's enormously important, yet I see lots of folks who go up to the line, generally get their position and that's it. No or not enough small refinement shifting. If my NPA is off, either initial set-up or body settling in during a string, I find that my wobble size will increase. That's from slight muscling of the rifle. A quick NPA check will confirm that and I'll adjust.

Don't lie to yourself either. Settle into position, close your eyes, breathe in, exhale, open your eyes and accept what you're pointing at. DO NOT MUSCLE THE RIFLE TOWARD THE BULL. Then shift your position.

I firmly believe that too many folks are not truly getting their NPA correct and that becomes a major problem.

Recognizing misaligned NPA can also help with other shooting disciplines and field firing as well.



Your body is balanced by the inner ears. With that said, have the rifle pretty high up in your shoulder and cant the rifle inboard. The cant allows you have an upright head position.

This will probably require a windage (possibly elevation) correction. I normally have 1 1/4 MOA of right wind on my rifles (both Match and Service) to compensate for my cant.


Look at where the buttstock is going in your shoulder, don't rely on feel. This will ensure proper placement of the buttstock each time. In my case, I'm looking at specific creases or locations on my shooting jacket. Mark the best spot on your clothing with a pen, have the buttstock hit that spot each time.


Ensure your cheek is pushing down into the buttstock in the same spot/same pressure. I like to have my chin touch the buttstock or cheekpiece at almost 90 degrees offset to the bore and turn my head while pressing my cheek down. Get's the chipmunk cheek thing going and helps ensure my head position along with consistent head pressure on the stock. I prefer the "nose-to-charging-handle" spot on Service rifles. Worked when shooting irons and I have Service Rifle scopes set up to work the same way.

Keep the rifle fairly close to your body. Too far out (guess you could say "open") will mess with your center of gravity. My son had this problem when he started shooting.


Figure out your wobble area. This ties in with NPA. Set up aimed at a blank wall. Build your position, and get a feel for it. When are you most steady/stable? Then add a target and adjust your NPA that way.


Watch your trigger control. It's easy to get sloppy and try to snatch the trigger too fast, leading to jerking. Two stage triggers can help with that.

Another one that many folks have a hard time with is knowing when NOT to shoot. Many will hold on and try to dress up a shot while their position is failing, blood oxygen is dropping, and the image is getting burned into their eye. I try to have the shot gone within 7 seconds of exhaling and focusing on the reticle (or front sight if irons). If not, I breathe and start over. I might not take the rifle out of my shoulder, just breathe, shut my eyes and/or look away, then start the shot process over from that point. If stability is falling apart (NPA shift, usually), then I'll take it out of the shoulder.


Air rifles and .22's are great trainers. They allow you to work on the mechanics of the position and shot execution while forcing you to improve followthrough. As another poster stated, that longer projectile dwell time in the barrel is the key. Easier for you to throw off a shot with an airgun/.22. I've got an Eliseo AN-1 set up as a Match rifle trainer and a Compass Lake dedicated .22 LR upper as a Service rifle trainer.

I have a SCATT electronic trainer that spends probably 99.57% of its time set up to practice offhand. There's a lot of data that you can glean from the SCATT.

If you really want to get good at position shooting, like others have said: PRACTICE.


Big wall of text.
 
A little offhand perspective from a Highpower Across the Course simpleton.

As others have said and mentioned above, there's some good books/manuals on there. "Ways of the Rifle-2009"is definitely a good one, even if seemingly geared more toward the air rifle/smallbore shooter.

Natural Point of Aim. It's enormously important, yet I see lots of folks who go up to the line, generally get their position and that's it. No or not enough small refinement shifting. If my NPA is off, either initial set-up or body settling in during a string, I find that my wobble size will increase. That's from slight muscling of the rifle. A quick NPA check will confirm that and I'll adjust.

Don't lie to yourself either. Settle into position, close your eyes, breathe in, exhale, open your eyes and accept what you're pointing at. DO NOT MUSCLE THE RIFLE TOWARD THE BULL. Then shift your position.

I firmly believe that too many folks are not truly getting their NPA correct and that becomes a major problem.

Recognizing misaligned NPA can also help with other shooting disciplines and field firing as well.



Your body is balanced by the inner ears. With that said, have the rifle pretty high up in your shoulder and cant the rifle inboard. The cant allows you have an upright head position.

This will probably require a windage (possibly elevation) correction. I normally have 1 1/4 MOA of right wind on my rifles (both Match and Service) to compensate for my cant.


Look at where the buttstock is going in your shoulder, don't rely on feel. This will ensure proper placement of the buttstock each time. In my case, I'm looking at specific creases or locations on my shooting jacket. Mark the best spot on your clothing with a pen, have the buttstock hit that spot each time.


Ensure your cheek is pushing down into the buttstock in the same spot/same pressure. I like to have my chin touch the buttstock or cheekpiece at almost 90 degrees offset to the bore and turn my head while pressing my cheek down. Get's the chipmunk cheek thing going and helps ensure my head position along with consistent head pressure on the stock. I prefer the "nose-to-charging-handle" spot on Service rifles. Worked when shooting irons and I have Service Rifle scopes set up to work the same way.

Keep the rifle fairly close to your body. Too far out (guess you could say "open") will mess with your center of gravity. My son had this problem when he started shooting.


Figure out your wobble area. This ties in with NPA. Set up aimed at a blank wall. Build your position, and get a feel for it. When are you most steady/stable? Then add a target and adjust your NPA that way.


Watch your trigger control. It's easy to get sloppy and try to snatch the trigger too fast, leading to jerking. Two stage triggers can help with that.

Another one that many folks have a hard time with is knowing when NOT to shoot. Many will hold on and try to dress up a shot while their position is failing, blood oxygen is dropping, and the image is getting burned into their eye. I try to have the shot gone within 7 seconds of exhaling and focusing on the reticle (or front sight if irons). If not, I breathe and start over. I might not take the rifle out of my shoulder, just breathe, shut my eyes and/or look away, then start the shot process over from that point. If stability is falling apart (NPA shift, usually), then I'll take it out of the shoulder.


Air rifles and .22's are great trainers. They allow you to work on the mechanics of the position and shot execution while forcing you to improve followthrough. As another poster stated, that longer projectile dwell time in the barrel is the key. Easier for you to throw off a shot with an airgun/.22. I've got an Eliseo AN-1 set up as a Match rifle trainer and a Compass Lake dedicated .22 LR upper as a Service rifle trainer.

I have a SCATT electronic trainer that spends probably 99.57% of its time set up to practice offhand. There's a lot of data that you can glean from the SCATT.

If you really want to get good at position shooting, like others have said: PRACTICE.


Big wall of text.
Not my post but thanks for sharing your expertise! Will check out the book also
To many on here say test yourself.thanks for sharing
Bookmarked also
 
What Dark Star said,
Establish your natural pt. of aim
And practice it to perfection.
---do not muscle the gun at all left or right, close your eyes then open them back up and see where you are aiming.......then adjust your feet slightly to get back on point.

Learn how to use your sights also, know when you are just a split hair off, the front sight simply being in between the rear sight window is not good enough, envision then be able to visually divide how much light there is on either side of your front sight blade (eat carrots, to the point you actually become addicted and crave them.... I began eating a complete bunch of baby carrots every day to slow any degeneration of my eyes just for the purpose of shooting open sights accurately)

in 2010 I was just like you, always shot off bench or bipod
Then got my first AR and was thoroughly embarrassed at how bad I shot at 100 yds open sights
Now, I can split cards on end from 20 yds, pistol or rifle (about every 2nd or 3rd shot)
 
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