Nut Barrel vs Shouldered

[NDSU]

My gunsmith and experienced benchrest shooter and I have often debated the nut barrel concept. I have several barrels from NSS/Criterion and Urbanrifleman. Both brands have been consistently accurate (1/4-1/2 MOA) when I do my part. His favorite saying is, “A nut barrel will never win a match”. I’d be interested in hearing some opinions from more experienced shooters

 

[jelenko]

A top benchrest shooter and par excellance machinest member on this forum tested the same barrel on the same action as both shouldered and as nutted.

His results were that groups were indistinguishable - with slight nod to the nutted one.
IIRC, the barrel he used had won some benchrest matches.

 

[Evan]

This has been discussed extensively and there really isn’t new information available. I think the match winning argument is a bit flawed. Is the 6 PPC the most match-winning because it is the best, or is it the most match-winning because a majority of shooters use it?

 

[NDSU]

A top benchrest shooter and par excellance machinest member on this forum tested the same barrel on the same action as both shouldered and as nutted.

His results were that groups were indistinguishable - with slight nod to the nutted one.
IIRC, the barrel he used had won some benchrest matches.

Interesting. I had considered doing such a test but didn’t want to twist the custom barrel off my 6BR!

 

[jackieschmidt]

Here is the test I did that @jelenco referred to. I put a lot of time into this…..
Just because.

I documented what I did, Go to post 402 for the results.

You can read it and come to your own conclusions.

Thread 'Barrel Nut Disadvantages?'

Jan 18, 2021

I think for most applications a good quality barrel nut on a well machined barrel ought to be okay. However, as I think through this, I see some potential disadvantages.

With a well machined shouldered barrel, when you tighten it up it firmly and evenly engages the action. At most, you might get .001" more from just snug to heavy torque. More often I think it's less than .0005". This means the barrel is true to the action with no stress. This allows very heavy barrels to free float.

With a barrel nut, there is no barrel shoulder so thread tension must be what holds everything in...

• INTJ
• Replies: 492
• Forum: Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing

• 

 

[Richard Jones]

This has been discussed extensively and there really isn’t new information available. I think the match winning argument is a bit flawed. Is the 6 PPC the most match-winning because it is the best, or is it the most match-winning because a majority of shooters use it?

If something else would beat a PPC for SRBR, 'they' would be using it.

 

[DShortt]

This has been discussed extensively and there really isn’t new information available. I think the match winning argument is a bit flawed. Is the 6 PPC the most match-winning because it is the best, or is it the most match-winning because a majority of shooters use it?

Use something different and win some matches. Otherwise it's just a theory.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, it's just a fact. If there's a better way to do it, someone will have to demonstrate it and others will have to follow.

 

[jackieschmidt]

If something else would beat a PPC for SRBR, 'they' would be using it.

The question is would anybody build a Short Range Benchrest 6PPC with a barrel nut.

I did that “Test” to see if a barrel secured with a nut can be as accurate as on secured on the shoulder.
I did not do it in 6PPC because I was not about to unglue and butcher up my Scoville LV stock. I did it with what I had available that was a proven barrel in competition.
I still do not use nutted barrels on my Competition Rifles because I do my own work and for me it is no big thing to machine a shouldered barrel to the exact dimensions of the previous barrel.

 

[Evan]

If something else would beat a PPC for SRBR, 'they' would be using it.

You’re ignoring or misunderstanding my point. If everyone uses a piece of equipment, that piece of equipment will win the most matches. That is not the same thing as a piece of equipment being the best for the task. A lot of guys shoot PPC for score when there is a real argument that a 30BR is better. Not long ago, it was unthinkable that anything would unseat the Dasher in LRBR, and then the BRA came along. Even when the BRA started setting records, it still wasn’t “winning the most matches” and the “most winning” option was to chamber a Dasher.

I like shouldered barrels because I can spin them on and off and they will headspace the same every time. A nut can move so I would need to meticulously check the headspace every time I threaded the barrel back on.

 

[DirtySteve]

I like shouldered barrels because I can spin them on and off and they will headspace the same every time. A nut can move so I would need to meticulously check the headspace every time I threaded the barrel back on.

I locktite my barrel nut in place, fir that reason. Each barrel has it's own nut.

 

[Evan]

I locktite my barrel nut in place, fir that reason. Each barrel has it's own nut.

I’m still afraid of it moving. I torque my barrels to 70 ft.lbs. with light oil on the threads and if it headspaces 0.0005” tighter all of a sudden I get some tight rounds that disrupt the gun in the bags.

That said, I don’t think a shoulder shoots better than a nut, just that it’s more convenient for me.

 

[DShortt]

I’m still afraid of it moving. I torque my barrels to 70 ft.lbs. with light oil on the threads and if it headspaces 0.0005” tighter all of a sudden I get some tight rounds that disrupt the gun in the bags.

Well then, I guess your mind is made up.
Chamberings notwithstanding.

 

[Tempest]

All I can add to this conversation, had pretty darn good results with a nut over people that did not in FTR.

At some point, it's "the" hand load for "that" barrel and wind reading regardless of other factors.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

All the guns I shoot regularly are male guns (they have nuts) and I doubt I can shoot the differences between a nut and a shoulder. If you think one shoots better than the other that’s what you should use

 

[Texas Solo]

I'm calling BS. I use Savage #12 Target actions. Yeah, they're not as smooth as others and the bolt lift sucks. BUT...
I've won 10 out of the last 12 club matches, mostly with "clean" scores at 300. I placed 2nd and 3rd at CMP Talladega this Spring and fall.
AFAIK, I was the only one shooting Savage. I install my own barrels and have never felt at a disadvantage due to the barrel nut.

 

[NDSU]

Here is the test I did that @jelenco referred to. I put a lot of time into this…..
Just because.

I documented what I did, Go to post 402 for the results.

You can read it and come to your own conclusions.

Thread 'Barrel Nut Disadvantages?'

Jan 18, 2021

I think for most applications a good quality barrel nut on a well machined barrel ought to be okay. However, as I think through this, I see some potential disadvantages.

With a well machined shouldered barrel, when you tighten it up it firmly and evenly engages the action. At most, you might get .001" more from just snug to heavy torque. More often I think it's less than .0005". This means the barrel is true to the action with no stress. This allows very heavy barrels to free float.

With a barrel nut, there is no barrel shoulder so thread tension must be what holds everything in...

• INTJ
• Replies: 492
• Forum: Gun Project Questions & Gunsmithing

• 

Thanks, Jackie. Great thread.

 

[BoydAllen]

My gunsmith and experienced benchrest shooter and I have often debated the nut barrel concept. I have several barrels from NSS/Criterion and Urbanrifleman. Both brands have been consistently accurate (1/4-1/2 MOA) when I do my part. His favorite saying is, “A nut barrel will never win a match”. I’d be interested in hearing some opinions from more experienced shooters

Short range group rifles are almost all glued in, and barrel swapping is common. Barrel nut installations are not feasible for use with a glued in action, with the nut wrenches that are available.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I'm calling BS. I use Savage #12 Target actions. Yeah, they're not as smooth as others and the bolt lift sucks. BUT...
I've won 10 out of the last 12 club matches, mostly with "clean" scores at 300. I placed 2nd and 3rd at CMP Talladega this Spring and fall.
AFAIK, I was the only one shooting Savage. I install my own barrels and have never felt at a disadvantage due to the barrel nut.

Maybe the accuracy is also do to the floating bolt head.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Maybe the accuracy is also do to the floating bolt head.

The Savage system was developed to minimize production cost, and provide an affordable rifle to the working man. It turned out these rifles could be surprisingly accurate. Some owners found they could easily modify these rifles, doing their own work, and a cult following developed. Aftermarket support sprung up and all this has lead us to the current discussion. If all of this helps bring more shooters into the sport, then that is a good thing.

I HAVE NEVER HAD A MATCH ENTRY FEE TURNED DOWN BECAUSE I WAS SHOOTING A SAVAGE

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The Savage system was developed to minimize production cost, and provide an affordable rifle to the working man. It turned out these rifles could be surprisingly accurate. Some owners found they could easily modify these rifles, doing their own work, and a cult following developed. Aftermarket support sprung up and all this has lead us to the current discussion. If all of this helps bring more shooters into the sport, then that is a good thing.

I HAVE NEVER HAD A MATCH ENTRY FEE TURNED DOWN BECAUSE I WAS SHOOTING A SAVAGE

I saw a hunter’s Begara Premier rifle the other day that had a floating bolt head design too. I’m not sure if all Begara’s are made this way or not.