Not all primers are the same size (large rifle)

[Otakar]

I have been reloading for many years now and have almost exclusively been using Winchester primers. This is because the Winchester primers are hotter than the others in their respective category and I have in general been shooting very large magnums such as the 7mm-STW, 375-JRS, 300-STW, 6mm-264Win-Mag, 450 Ackley Etc Etc. Some years ago I designed a new cartridge which I called .375 American T.R. (after Teddy Roosevelt) It is a shortened down 338 Win-Mag down to 2.3" case length. I designed it to fit into an un-altered large ring Mauser magazine. I also Started loading 7.62x45 Czech ammunition formed out of Carcano brass. These cases are a unique size and the Winchester primers are too hot. So I did try CCI primers which work very well. I also purchased a few thousand Federal primers because I read so many good reviews and also a few thousand Sellier & Bellot primers because I have always really loved their ammo and they were. 14.95/1K. Well I did not realize that the federal primers are .001" larger than the other brands (this is to fit thew larger Federal brass pockets) and the S&B primers are right in between the two. The Federal primers are so bad that Lee even places warnings on their priming tools to load single primers into the tray because of possible detonation during priming. This causes problems with many if not most central and eastern European cartridges because they have much thinner rims than US designed brass. I have found this out on the S&B, and PPU 8mm-Mauser brass (and others) and especially the Carcano brass which I use to make my 7.62x45 brass. The problem arises when installing primers the conventional way against the inside of a shell holder. I have actually torn off rims and more often than not bent them while installing the Federal and S&B primers. So I had to design a new primer installation tool which presses the primers in with a ram rod pressing into the inside of the shell. I have now done a hundred or so cases this way and it works beautifully. It is a bit slower than the conventional way but since I load 50-100 shells at a time it only extends the loading time by about 1/4-1/2 hour. This is not bad. I do the priming in a Lee Classic single stage press, because this press has a tall enough opening to accept the new tooling. I was using the older cast iron one (which I absolutely love) and now I just picked up the new version with the quick change system on it. This new press is Aluminum and not as good as the older press but good enough for this and most other operations. Has anyone else had major issues using Federal primers in any other than Federal brass? Because I make a lot of custom wildcat cartridges I use exclusively Remington, Winchester, Sellier & Bellot and PPU (Pivi Partizan) brass and ammo.

 

[ebb]

Ive reloaded with all the American made primers Winchester, Remington, and CCI and never had an issue like you are talking about. But hey I can learn!!! I'll measure some next time I am at the reloading bench.

 

[LHSmith]

German Salazer's flash testing showed Fed. 215 were the hottest LR primers. In non-magnum primers the WLR was hotter than Fed 210. My Federal primers mike the same as Remingtons. Never had a problem with Federals in any brand of brass- even Lapua.

 

[Nature Boy]

I find Winchester WLR primers to be undersized. For that reason I don’t use them anymore

 

[ireload2]

I have been reloading and reading about reloading for 50 years.
In all the tens of thousands of rounds reloaded by me and my brother we have never torn off a single rim using Federal #210 primers.
Not only that but I have never before heard of any other shooter tearing rims off seating a Federal primer. That includes reading all Handloader Magazines going back to Issue #1 in the late 1960s.
I have used Fed #210 primers in Federal, WW, RP, PPU, Norma, Hornady, Lake City, St Louis, Frankfort Arsenal and other cases without a single problem I would attribute to Federal primers.
The hand priming tools that I use are not even capable of tearing a rim off. You might want to try another process with Federal primers because you are clearly doing something wrong.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I dont know what youre doing but i can tell youre doing it wrong. Hundreds of thousands of primers of all brands and sizes ive never experienced anything remotely similar. It takes a beefy press and a huge ham fist to tear a rim off a case. Ive had countless actions in my shop with the bolt handle beat off by a mallet with the cartride rim always intact. Not sure about all that brass like carcano stuff you speak of but id look for the inconsistencies there not a primer thats made to spec

 

[1shot]

I'm betting it's a brass issue, not the primers.
That said, Wolf/Tula primers fit a bit tighter in Lapua brass than others, but nothing like you are describing.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[DOGCAPPER]

It's the brass.
The primer pocket.
A military style crimp ring.

 

[LHSmith]

I'm betting it's a brass issue, not the primers.
That said, Wolf/Tula primers fit a bit tighter in Lapua brass than others, but nothing like you are describing.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

I see the same thing. I miked some of those Russian primers and they measured a thou larger than the others. But I can still seat them with no problems-even with handtools.

 

[Ringostar]

I've never used military brass with crimped primers. I do have some brass that is very tough to prime though. It's PPU brass in 7.5x55 Swiss. It is definitely a brass issue not a primer issue.

 

[jasophil1]

I never had problem with over sized primers but did get some under sized primer pockets on some hand made brass fore 5mm craig.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I find Winchester WLR primers to be undersized. For that reason I don’t use them anymore

Same here.

That happened when they went from the white box to the blue box. The white box primers were copper colored and the blue box is silver. I measured the silver ones and they are a thousanth to a thousanth and a half below spec. Maybe its just the ones I have at the time I purchased them.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I also Started loading 7.62x45 Czech ammunition formed out of Carcano brass.

If you are going to form old surplus WWII Carcano brass you have to rub the case and edges of the primers with virgin olive oil before case forming and seating the primers. Do not use the Russian Communist block method of dipping the cases and primers in Russian red cabbage borscht.

P.S. Do not use any WWII Russian tooling for making T34 tank wheels, or you will rip the rims off the cases.

No Lapua cases were hurt or injured during the making of this posting.

 

[Will Henry]

I've not had any primer which were overly tight but have a bunch of Remington 9 1/2's which are loose in all brass and way loose in Federal brass. WH

 

[chop house]

i have exactly one partial sleeve of wlr, white in color yet slightly yellowed, with the cowboy, on which i had written a l-o-n-g time ago "save for loose pockets. hard seating in norma brass"

fwiw.

 

[cw308]

Never had problem with primers , maybe it's because I'm not reloading odd ball stuff. 308 fed., HSM and ADI brass . Primers are Federal and CCI both benchrest and standard.

 

[D-4297]

Be happy as a clam to take those S&B's off your hands for a reasonable price , if you have any left . I've got about 700 7.62 x 54r S&B cases they would fit into quite nice . And 350 Win cases , also M-N that like them , too . LRP or SRP , I'm a big fan of S&B primers .

 

[tommeboy]

If it is S&B brass, the primer pockets are not drilled, forged deep enough on the metric calibers. Everyone in the C&R world has known this for years. And the brass is a harder alloy and does not survive unless annealed. Their pistol brass is almost as bad. They also made a bunch of pistol brass for Win. They also make the 7.62x54r for Win. It sucks!