No tip Ballistic Tip!

[Coleridge]

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience on game shot with a pulled ballistic tip? Not sure if many people have tried it, but you can pull the tip from a Nosler or a Vmax with a pair of pliers. It leaves what appears as a large hollow point (that’s really all it is). I can only assume this would render expansion on game similar to hp & possibly just slow the expansion of the BT ever so slightly compared to its intended design.

What I am truly after is a shorter bullet to load in an AR-15 6x45. With the tip gone, I can seat the bullet farther out (several benefits) & still make mag length. I do realize this will reduce the bullet BC but have no worries with that concern.

So does anyone have any experience with terminal results of either these bullets with no “tip”???

 

[xr650rRider]

I bet if it was a good idea, Nosler would sell them that way. Your making an explosive/varmint bullet more explosive. Your seating longer to gain powder capacity for longer range performance, yet you've reduced the BC so much the gains you made in velocity is quickly lost. Can't believe I just wasted time typing that.

 

[Coleridge]

I bet if it was a good idea, Nosler would sell them that way. Your making an explosive/varmint bullet more explosive. Your seating longer to gain powder capacity for longer range performance, yet you've reduced the BC so much the gains you made in velocity is quickly lost.

Thanks for that keen intellect you displayed XR...

First off, several companies do sell hollow points. I would imagine in the genera of today’s time, many more "cool looking", higher BC ballistic tipped bullets are sold & that's why they offer BT & not HP's. Do you really think they could sell hollowpoints for the same price they sell the BT's? Add a cheap little piece of plastic & sell at a premium price (win for them).

Also, I seriously doubt I am making them "more explosive". I am SURE they would offer them as such; if that was the case (how many prairie dog shooters don't want a more explosive bullet? NONE). The “tip” is supposed to initiate expansion if it’s gone, it will only start expanding in hydraulic pressure, making them less explosive (or at least retard the action).

I stated I knew the ballistic coefficient would go down & I didn't care! I want to seat longer to get closer to the lans. Shooting them single shot I found my accuracy got better with longer OAL (more case capacity is just a byproduct). That is not for LR capabilities, it's because I like my rifles as accurate as possible. If I want long range capabilities I will get out my 6BRX shooting 105 Amaxs, or my 6.5x47Lapua shooting 140 Berger’s, or may 7mag shooting 162gr Amaxs, or one of my many other rifles that has more horse power than a dinky 223 case & a short varmint bullet. I seriously doubt the hundredths of BC value gained, or 50 fps gain or lost in the 6x45 will touch any of those.

My 6x45 AR is a predator calling specific gun. Most places I set up I can't see more than 70-80 yards. The longest shot I recollect with it is 232 yards. The accuracy I'm getting out of the Shelin barrel is more than good enough for that (it's averaging just around 1/2"). If the game performance is similar to a normal HP & I get better accuracy I see no reason but a win.

Can't believe I just wasted time typing that.

Please don't again.

 

[expiper]

I nevr did use the lil' bullets (22 cal-6mm's) but bak in the day (early 70's I think!!) when Nozler brought out the blastic (deliberately miss-spelled) tip in .30 cal (150-165gr) they were touted as the bee's knees for auto-loaders which were very popular amongst woodsmen/hunters here in the east and even claimed great things about the "lubricity" of the tip in the feed ramp.....I pulled the tips on a few and also flattened the tip (uniformed/opened the tip) on several Sierra SMK's and used them for experiment on road kill deer (cadaver tests) .....it seemed to me that if the meat/bones were substancial enuff the bullet worked good with the tip in...but if thin skinned and or small vermin were impacted the tips removed made the bullet blow up better...(hows that for technical terms!!??)....any how..now them make em in all cals and color the tips to suit the cal....green was the original 30 cal color...now we got red-yellow-puple- blue-brown....hhhaha.....and I would guess you will find the same thing I did in the smaller cal....not much improvement but can seat out longer for case capacity and still function reliably...Roger

 

[Larryh128]

There is a possibility that it may slow down the bullet opening up instead of being more explosive. The tip initiates the expansion & without it there is the possibility of it behaving like a hollow point pistol bullet that won't open because it basically get plugged with hair & tissue. Only 1 way to find out.

 

[lpreddick]

had the same problem using 60 vmax in my ar. my ar mag is plastic, so i cut a slot down the front so the tips could stick out a bit but still too long, so i filled the tip a bit and smoothed it and it fit. they did a fine job on ghogs, often no exit wound (all energy dumped inside ). on hollowpoints doing their thing...don't forget that the bullet is spinning very fast...over 100,000 rpms and most bullet tips have longitudinal marks formed when they were made and these i believe are weak areas and will come apart with the force of impact and rotation, sending shrapnel in all directions. i routinely hollowpoint target bullets and drill out a large segment of jacket material leaving a thin tip that really comes apart. most varmint bullets do have a rather large open tip and a lower bc than pointed target ones. oh yea, some tips pull easily and some break off...yuk. [/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you. BANG!

 

[necchi]

It's pretty obvious with your diatribe rebuttle to xr650 you all ready have all the answers to or questions.

I think he made a vailid point, If they work better that way, some one would already be making them. Or someone would have already done so and it would be common knowledge that to improve a Nosler BT just remove the tip.
If it was indeed better wouldn't Nosler save money making them instead of buying plastic tips and inserting them?

But some people have a need to re-invent the wheel.

Knock yourself out man, have fun, ;D

Oh, and I hope that accuracy get's a little better for ya.

 

[Coleridge]

Maybe I'm going about this all wrong...

I, in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM think that pulling the tip out of a Nosler ballistic tip will make it a "better" bullet. I absolutely believe that the bullet, in it's form from Nosler, has way less drag, expands more reliably, will expand more quickly & is way better suited for 99.9% of applications.

If it was not for a maximum length (magazine limitation), I in no way, would even think of changing a design that has worked excellent for decades. ONLY because I am limited to a 2.26" C.O.A.L., am I even considering such.

I know that sierra make a .243" 60gr HP that is pretty blunt that will get me (bullet bearing surface) closer to the lands. However, the 70gr Nosler shoots very well in the gun & I like the idea of a heavier bullet. My problem is the bullet shoots better if it is lengthened a bit. However, this in turn makes the bullet too long to feed from the mag. There is a possible way to get the bullet ogive further out without changing the max 2.26" length. It is possible, to remove the tip (it's quite easy on most & I don't think I'm effing up the jacket), & also possible to file/dremel the tip down flush to the jacket. My question is will I still get reliable expansion if such is done.

Again, in no way do I think I am making a "better" bullet. Just a shorter more blunt one...

I apoligize for not making myself more clear. Did I mention I'm not trying to make a better bullet...??? ;D

 

[ChrisNZ]

It's pretty obvious with your diatribe rebuttle to xr650 you all ready have all the answers to or questions.
....
But some people have a need to re-invent the wheel.

Knock yourself out man, have fun, ;D
..

+1 on that

 

[jonbearman]

Sierra makes some mighty big hollow points and they work,so I say why not. Its experimenting like this that has found out many good ideas. Just ask PO Ackley if he were alive. He did things that many thought were impossible and rediculous. His ideas live on. Right Roger,wink! LOL I say go for it.

 

[K22]

I use 50 grain Nosler BT's and V-maxes in my 223's and 55's in my 22 250. They perform marevlously and I don't understand why you would want to mess with one of the finest varmint bullets on the market. If you want a hollow point, use the Speer TNT or Sierra 55 BTHP; it would be a lot cheaper and simpler than pulling out the BT's!

 

[Coleridge]

I use 50 grain Nosler BT's and V-maxes in my 223's and 55's in my 22 250. They perform marevlously and I don't understand why you would want to mess with one of the finest varmint bullets on the market. If you want a hollow point, use the Speer TNT or Sierra 55 BTHP; it would be a lot cheaper and simpler than pulling out the BT's!

I get terrible accuracy with. 224" bullets out of a 6mm barrel (no such thing as Sierra 55gr bthp in .243) but thanks for the suggestion.

I don't understand why this is so hard???

 

[TheSnake]

I don't understand why this is so hard???

I don't think this is hard. I think several replies have answered your question in their opinion. Expiper stated that he has done the exact same thing in the past and gave his results. I don't normally chime in on posts like this, but you ask for people's opinions, they spent a few minutes to reply and I guess you didn't like what they had to say. Lighten up and take them with a grain of salt and move on to the next reply.

I think removing the tip will slow down the expansion a bit but probably not enough to matter. I feel the tip does help and a good example, to me, would be the Hornady Critical Defense. The tip helps keep the hollow point from getting clogged with debris (hair, clothing etc) on initial impact so the hollow point can do a better job expanding after entering the target. I know the Critical Defense are designed for personal defense but in theory, it should be similar.

Only trying to help and best of luck.

 

[Coleridge]

I don't understand why this is so hard???

I don't think this is hard. I think several replies have answered your question in their opinion. Expiper stated that he has done the exact same thing in the past and gave his results. I don't normally chime in on posts like this, but you ask for people's opinions, they spent a few minutes to reply and I guess you didn't like what they had to say. Lighten up and take them with a grain of salt and move on to the next reply.

I think removing the tip will slow down the expansion a bit but probably not enough to matter. I feel the tip does help and a good example, to me, would be the Hornady Critical Defense. The tip helps keep the hollow point from getting clogged with debris (hair, clothing etc) on initial impact so the hollow point can do a better job expanding after entering the target. I know the Critical Defense are designed for personal defense but in theory, it should be similar.

Only trying to help and best of luck.

Thanks for the reply snake. That's more of what I was looking for...

As for what I was talking about "why is this so hard"; is why are people suggesting I use a 22 caliber BTHP or 22 cal TNT when I clearly stated I was shooting in a 6mm (first post states 6x45). "Why is it so hard" to inderstand that I didn't ask how great the BT is in form. And most of all "why is it so hard" to understand why I'm wanting to remove the tip. Do I need a picture??? ;D

I apoligize again if I seem to be coming off crude, but I'm not saying I'm inventing sliced bread here. I just wanted to know if anyone had had experience or knowledge of the subject. I not trying to get everyone to switch/follow, just wanted experience for this one project (you can keep using your tips in form just as I will in my other rifles). And I truely appriciate the guys that did give their experience or educated opinion on subject! Just surprised I got so many other random thoughts.

Thanks

 

[necchi]

OK,Ok,,

Just a thought, why not try too "sand" or "file" the tip down and leave a flattened meplate instead of pulling the tip and leaving it hollow?

 

[SongdogHunter]

... Can't believe I just wasted time typing that.

I can't believe i just wasted time reading this reply!

SDH

 

[Minesweeper3433]

I purchased a 22-250 savage a year back and 100 rounds of ammo that I had tried 20 in already. They were BT's and they shot amazing! for factory ammo. I stored them in an ammo box instead of the cardboard that they came in. About 8 or 9 of the tips fell out some how. I shot them anyway as it was just my fun gun for paper at the time. At 200 they shot to the exact same group as the still tipped rounds. as far as expansion never used them on flesh. But accuracy was unaffected out to what I shot it. A friend of mine shoots 90 grain lead cast bullets in his AR 15 and they are flat nose almost to the point of being wadcutters. they still shoot just messy.

 

[Johnboy]

this is whats so fun sweet about the shooting world we live in.we can post and reply what we want.we do not always say or get what we want.but the one thing we do get is answers.some better than others.some we just do not want.even some we cannot take with that one grain of salt.

the shooting world this site is just to gooood.the best of it is the guys here to help each other out.just do as you want.you are and was any way.and yes its nice to want to hear what one thinks.and like one said you got answers even more.just do the testing and let us know.we all need more food to eat.heck I love what the guys have to say.heck have even asked or answered some very DUMB questions.but gave and got what I wanted to hear or gave.

 

[pdog2225]

The larger frontal area will decrease the BC of the bullet as stated. And the explosive factor will increase. In example the .224 cal Berger makes an MEF (maximum expansion factor) bullet for varminting. This bullet has a larger opening in the nose increasing the explosive effect. I used this bullet for a few years on prairie dogs and it rekits them violently.
I have been swaging my own bullets for 20 yrs. And I have learned that where the plastic tip meets the copper jacket is the actual frontal area of a bullet. Pulling that tip or filing it flush with the jacket front will only lighten the weight/change the BC of that bullet. Happy Shooting

 

[Coleridge]

Just an update.

So far so good... This one never knew what hit