No Spring Back

[Old Navy]

I have searched here quite a bit but did not find an answer to my problem. 75% of my four times fired Peterson 22XC brass is not springing back at all. They measure .260 to .261 and the bolt is stiff to close when rechambering them. Will annealing cure this problem?

 

[Catfur]

Brass gets harder when worked, not softer. Harder metals are springier (technical term).

What, exactly, do you mean by "not springing back at all?" What are you measuring? When are you measuring it? .260 sounds like a neck dimension. Does it hold a bullet well?

 

[Old Navy]

Brass gets harder when worked, not softer. Harder metals are springier (technical term).

What, exactly, do you mean by "not springing back at all?" What are you measuring? When are you measuring it? .260 sounds like a neck dimension. Does it hold a bullet well?

This is not my first rodeo with annealing. My fired case necks measure .255 to .261". The chamber, if cut right, should be .255". I am sure Brad knows how to cut a 22XC chamber. In the past when my larger calibers needed annealing I could feel a little more resistance when resizing, expanding and seating the bullets. Nothing wrong with my mic or the retired Millwright running it. I got the felling when I first necked them down from 6XC that the brass might be a little to soft. That is another story.

 

[Catfur]

What do they measure after resizing? What do they measure after having a bullet seated? If the chamber is a .255 neck, a fired case neck shouldn't measure .261.

If you think annealing will solve the problem and you're familiar with it, then go do it! But your abbreviated description of the problem isn't making sense.

 

[LHSmith]

the bolt is stiff to close when rechambering them.

Tight bolt closure usually means shoulder must be pushed back. But also the brass might need trimming.

 

[AlNyhus]

My fired case necks measure .255 to .261". The chamber, if cut right, should be .255".

There's no way that a .255 chamber neck dimension will result in .261 fired neck dimensions.

Starting from the start is always the best method. Before going any further, verify the chambers neck dimension. Not by the reamer print or what it's supposed to be...but what it actually measures. There are a couple easy ways to determine this.

Let us know what you find out. -Al

 

[NorCalMikie]

Will annealing cure this problem?

Yes. HELL YES!!
And you DON'T need to spend BIG $$$$ to do it either.
Propane torch, low light, drill motor, deep socket so case sticks out enough and you're in business. Maybe 6 to 8 seconds in the flame till you see color change.
Use old brass to experiment on till you get the hang of it. After that, you will be an EXPERT and can tell others "how to do it".

 

[dcali]

.255 to .261 is a pretty big range. But if your chamber is .255, they should be coming out around .253-.254ish. Something isn't right here. (They can't come out bigger than the chamber).

But even if it was the issue, annealing wouldn't help - it makes the brass softer (in other words, it deforms permanently sooner) so there is less "spring back".

 

[AlNyhus]

If the chamber is .261-.262 and some of the brass is excessively hard, that could explain the wide range of fired neck diameters...but the brass would really have to be all over the place for the differences to be that huge.

Again...determining the chamber neck diameter is step #1. Lacking that info, there's no idea where the finish line is. -Al

 

[dcali]

Another thing to note is that not all reamers are what they say they are. I had one that had a freebore .010" longer than it was supposed to be. I highly doubt you'd see a .006" difference between spec and reality on the neck diameter, but you never know. Mistakes happen.

 

[M-61]

Tight bolt closure usually means shoulder must be pushed back. But also the brass might need trimming.

Might not be your problem at all BUT:
6.5 BR
On occasion too hard or no bolt closure on at least half the cases.
Problem solved by letting the case sit in the sizing die ( in the die) for about 12-15 seconds. Instead of my normal steady pace.
All chambered perfectly . No one was more surprised than me.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Neck diameter should be very similar to 22-250/22-250AI. .255 ish, fired brass slightly smaller of course. Unless a turned neck chamber was cut. Turned necks .0125(2) +.224= .249

 

[chuckshooter]

Did you try a small base die?

 

[Old Navy]

Yes. HELL YES!!
And you DON'T need to spend BIG $$$$ to do it either.
Propane torch, low light, drill motor, deep socket so case sticks out enough and you're in business. Maybe 6 to 8 seconds in the flame till you see color change.
Use old brass to experiment on till you get the hang of it. After that, you will be an EXPERT and can tell others "how to do it".

My son has an amp annealer.

 

[Old Navy]

.255 to .261 is a pretty big range. But if your chamber is .255, they should be coming out around .253-.254ish. Something isn't right here. (They can't come out bigger than the chamber).

But even if it was the issue, annealing wouldn't help - it makes the brass softer (in other words, it deforms permanently sooner) so there is less "spring back".

I sent a PM to Brad. His reamer is .262". Generous for sure but I think it is big so it work in gas guns. So I guess the .261" is on the money but the brass is not going to last long necking it to .250 each time. I was working up some loads with #22 and the 80.5 Bergers. Some of the .255" cases were probably not blown out all the way out.

 

[Old Navy]

There's no way that a .255 chamber neck dimension will result in .261 fired neck dimensions.

Starting from the start is always the best method. Before going any further, verify the chambers neck dimension. Not by the reamer print or what it's supposed to be...but what it actually measures. There are a couple easy ways to determine this.

Let us know what you find out. -Al

Brad's chamber is .262".

 

[Old Navy]

Thanks to all. I should have started with Brad.

 

[AlNyhus]

The chamber, if cut right, should be .255".

So...how did you end up with a .262 neck instead of the .255? If your loaded rounds are in the .252 range, the necks are being expanded radially .005 per side each firing (.010 total). Then they're being sized down .011 to .250. Then they come up a couple thou. again when the bullet is seated. Assuming the loaded round is .252, the necks are moving radially a total of .023 each time they are fired, sized and a bullet is seated.

They're going to get pretty hard in a hurry with that much movement. Which is likely why some aren't expanding all the way to .262 when they are fired. And some are being pulled back to .255 due to the excessive hardness. Necks not sealing to the chamber are Bad JuJu for accuracy. The neck tension has to be all over the place. Even annealing has it limits of effectiveness when working with this kind of movement firing after firing.

Hoping you can find a way forward with this. -Al

 

[Webster]

Another thing to note is that not all reamers are what they say they are. I had one that had a freebore .010" longer than it was supposed to be. I highly doubt you'd see a .006" difference between spec and reality on the neck diameter, but you never know. Mistakes happen.

Gun smiths don't have big collections of reamers for the same caliber with many different freebores. You may get the closest freebore to what they have and never tell you. Not an expert but I think there is a special reamer that can increase the FB on a chamber.

 

[Old Navy]

So...how did you end up with a .262 neck instead of the .255? If your loaded rounds are in the .252 range, the necks are being expanded radially .005 per side each firing (.010 total). Then they're being sized down .011 to .250. Then they come up a couple thou. again when the bullet is seated. Assuming the loaded round is .252, the necks are moving radially a total of .023 each time they are fired, sized and a bullet is seated.

They're going to get pretty hard in a hurry with that much movement. Which is likely why some aren't expanding all the way to .262 when they are fired. And some are being pulled back to .255 due to the excessive hardness. Necks not sealing to the chamber are Bad JuJu for accuracy. The neck tension has to be all over the place. Even annealing has it limits of effectiveness when working with this kind of movement firing after firing.

Hoping you can find a way forward with this. -Al

That is the reamer that Brad got from Tubb. My math says I am only sizing them a total of .011" smaller. Still a lot but I will live with it because it is shooting very small.