Next step to improve accuracy for 243 Win.

[Remshooter]

I am not sure what to do next to improve accuracy on a Rem 700, BR trigger set at 2.5#, Bell and carlson stock, Lapua brass, fire formed and necked sized with Lee collet die, 60 grain Sierra Varminter bullet, Varget powder from 39gns-42.5 gns, loaded .010 off lands.

Currently shooting .75-1.00 groups at 100yds. I know there is .004-.005 run out in majority of rounds used. (measured at ogive). I have not tried different lengths off lands only .010.
Should I try different lengths or solve the run out problem. Cases have .001 run out after neck sizing, so bullet insertion die is the likely culprit. I am thinking a Redding BR micrometer die might help with run out. Where do I go next to get .5 and under groups at 100yds.

I didn't know if the runout would cause that much spread or if I have not loaded enough rounds yet in various lengths to find the magic round.

 

[BoydAllen]

If by ogive, you mean the point on the ogive where your tool for measuring from ogive to case head makes contact I think that it is better to say that, since the ogive is the entire surface from the very front (meplat) to where the sides of the bullet become parallel to each other. The confusion in this definition comes from tools being named ogive length measuring attachment, or something similar. They measure off of the ogive, but where they measure from is not the entire ogive.

Now that we have that out of the way, I would suggest that you look at the Forster Ultra micrometer seater. A friend who has both it and the Redding found that the Forster gives him less variation in bullet seating depth (and it will save you significant coin as well).

What brass are you using? Have you sorted it for consistency of weight and evenness of neck thickness? Lapua makes very good brass. You might try some.

Are you shooting over flags of some sort? Sticks with surveyor's tape taped to their tops (hanging down to just above the ground) will work.

What sort of rest/sandbag setup are you using, and how are you holding the rifle?

If you can manage it, you might try seating into the lands a little, or jumping more. Loading at the range will get you there faster.

Where on the forend is your front sand bag?

Are you throwing charges or weighing them?

Have you bedded the action into the stock? This is a must, and should be done before you waste any more barrel steel and components. .243s are not known for their long barrel lives.

 

[jonbearman]

Well said boyd,I have a couple questions pertaining to the barrel,is it a remington and what model was it.Is it a sporter or heavy barrel? Have you cleaned it with copper remover? I would suggest shooting a 75 grain bullet using 4831 or another powder suitable for the bullet weight.I shot the 60 grainers and couldnt get them to behave,went to a 75 and problem solved.Tell us alittle more imfo on how you reload and what you are using(tools) to get it done.

 

[Remshooter]

I am using Lapua brass, cleaning barrel every 15 shots with Bore Tech eliminator using bristle brush and patches. Shooting over flags for wind direction, heavy duty table, BR front rest, rear bags, the whole enchilada. Each powder charged is weighed for exact charge within 1/10th grain with 10-10 RCBS mechanical scale. (calibration checked)

My Rem 700, is a SBL model, semi custom, with Bell and Carlson stock, which supposedly eliminates the bedding issue. I shoot with front rest about 12 inches from end of stock.
Fluted SS 24" barrel, bolt has been turned and trued up. The target that I got with gun shot better with factory ammunition than I have with reloads, so far.

I have been reloading for 30 years, but just now getting into the nitty gritty of trying to fine tune my shooting from hunting loads to shooting tight groups just for fun. Thanks for the tip on the 75 gn bullet and 4831. Which specific 75 grain bullet did you try?.

The concentricity was checked at the .237 dimension of bullet where the bullet comparator stops when mesuring c.o.a.l. Is this the best place to measure concentricity?

 

[Joe O]

Try Speer 70 TNT,Sie 70 MK & BK,and Nosler 70gr BT Pmer tip,and WW760 or H414(same powder).I never check run out but I do vary seating depth to test for best groups,For a seater,I use a vickerman .All the 70gr bullets are sub 1/4" out of my Hart barrel,1/9 twist

 

[BoydAllen]

Sounds like you are well along in your quest. As to your question about where I measure runout, on my 6PPC I eyeball it at about .150 in front of the case neck.

I find that factory barrels need to be fouled to do their best work. Sometimes this may take 7-8 shots. I think that you may be cleaning too often. Try shooting, on a day when the wind is being kind, for an extended number of shots, maybe 50, or until you actually see a decrease in accuracy with a standard load. You can do this by doing 3 shot tests while evaluating other loads.

Have you ever loaded at the range? You can cover a lot more ground, in a given amount of time, that way.

 

[jonbearman]

I have always used the plain jane hornady 75 grain hp FLAT BASE specifically and they stabilize early on and forget the boatails till later down the road. Boatails can be alittle harder to yune.Figure what charge it likes.If this is a factory barrel then after a little experimenting you are still having bad accuracy,I would call remington and bitch.One of my friends had a vssf and it would not do better than an 1 1/4 at a hundred which is dreadful.We sent it back and it came back a 1/2 inch shooter and better.Have the bore scoped and make sure it is not real rough and have the crown checked under magnification to dee if that is waht is causin your problem.I have seen plenty of factory rifles need a good crown job to make them shoot or a good lapping.

 

[coyoteklr]

a new barrel is kinda like a cast iron frying pan ..... it needs to be seasoned to really work.... i agree that the cleaning regimen is a little too often.... i think sometimes we clean our barrels to death.... literally.....the thing about the 243 and 243 AI being barrel eaters is like saying the 220 swift is a barrel eater..... not if your using the right powder and not getting the barrel so hot you can't hold on to it.... Ackley improving a cartridge makes a big difference on the brass issue.... before AI the swift would do 3 reloads and then you could leave it on the ground.... after AI i can get 12 to 14 reloads and not a lot of trimming in between.
if all else fails i would find a good smith and have the barrel recrowned.....
the other thing is practice with new gun for awhile before throwing in trash can....
sometimes "we have met the enemy and they are us"..........

 

[BoydAllen]

Going back and rereading.....to my knowledge, nothing eliminates the need to bed the action...not really. The reason is that factory actions such as Remingtons are machined before they are heat treated, and the heat treatment warps them slightly. Even if you bed, and it looks good, the work should be checked with a dial indicator. Bedding is a fundamental requirement. Until it is perfect, you may be wasting barrel steel and components.

 

[RonAKA]

I would suspect the bullet first. It may be too light and short. I tried some 62 grain Berger Target bullets in my 6BR and they were awful -- 1.4" is smallest group, and they go up over 2". But Berger 68 Targets easily average under 1/2".

I would try Berger 68 Target and 80 grain Varmint, both flat base. Varget is probably still good, but H4831 is worth a try. I would also try 0.010" jam, and 0.020" jump as well as your current 0.010" jump.

If you have the die to do it, you may want to try a partial neck resize where 1/3 or so of the neck is left unsized. This helps center the cartridge in the neck, even though the neck may not be that tight.

 

[Larryh128]

+1 on Boydallen. Really check you bedding for wear marks etc.
Even stocks with aluminum chassis USUALLY will see a benefit from skim bedding.

 

[Remshooter]

Thanks all for your help-although I am not new to reloading I am new to the finite art of shooting tight groups. We shoot at a friends farm and reload on site-load 3-6 shoot and reload. Its nice and private, but unfortunately no one to help with problems.
There is no substitute for persistence, so I am going to try some of the suggestions and I'll give you a progress report.

 

[jimbo88mm]

I have not seen what the twist on the barrel is but if its a standard twist (~1/9) then I would agree with the consensus that 60grers are probably too light.

I have gotten good results with 70gr SMKs and 87gr Vmaxs using varget from my 1/9.25 savage barrel. I just picked up a box of Sierra 75gr HP flatbase bullets this week and will work up some loads over the weekend.

 

[MarkS]

Remshooter,

I am with Ron. Try some 68 or 80 gr Berger or any of the Benchrest bullets. I would try you bullets into the land. BACK OFF YOUR LOADS FIRST. If it want shoot with the bench bullets , it may be the barrel. For varmints I like the 70gr Blitzkings.

Mark Schronce

 

[260Ravage]

If you question your shooting technique: FWIW,,,, I, too, prefer to rest the rifle near the action and usually have success. I do have a particular target rifle that shoots much better rested nearer the forend,,,and I do mean MUCH better. It is a wieght/balance thing for that gun.

 

[K22]

Two simple things you can do: (1) Use IMR 4350 and (2) use heavier bullets - I recommend the 85 grain Sierra Boat Tail Hollow Point or the 90 grain Nosler. For varmints, the 80 grain Sierra Blitz.

I've shot the 243 since 1966 and have own several rifles in this caliber and never had one that didn't shoot the above combinations close to 1/2 MOA. (I did have to free float one Remington 700 and Model 7 to tighten the groups)