Newbie Reloading Question

[swisski]

Hey team,

Question for you regarding my brass after FL sizing with RCBS die. I've installed the die as recommended by RCBS, FL sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred some once fired Hornady brass.

After this process, I took the firing pin out of my bolt, and chambered a few of them to ensure the bolt would close easily enough. While they all close, I've noticed a few are certainly tougher than others and require more force.

I've gathered perhaps inconsistency in case lube practice, and even in the action of my stroke on the press could be a part of it, however I feel like I'm careful to do things the same every time. In measuring with a head space comparator and a sample of 40 cases, most are pretty close, but I'm still having a variance in headspace between .001-.003". Is this normal? If not, any ideas why?

I'd like to not have to check each case every time to be sure it chambers. Once again I'm brand new, so bear with me if this is just super simple stuff to you that I'm overlooking. Appreciate any knowledge and help. Thanks

 

[dgeesaman]

Hey team,

Question for you regarding my brass after FL sizing with RCBS die. I've installed the die as recommended by RCBS, FL sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred some once fired Hornady brass.

After this process, I took the firing pin out of my bolt, and chambered a few of them to ensure the bolt would close easily enough. While they all close, I've noticed a few are certainly tougher than others and require more force.

I've gathered perhaps inconsistency in case lube practice, and even in the action of my stroke on the press could be a part of it, however I feel like I'm careful to do things the same every time. In measuring with a head space comparator and a sample of 40 cases, most are pretty close, but I'm still having a variance in headspace between .001-.003". Is this normal? If not, any ideas why?

I'd like to not have to check each case every time to be sure it chambers. Once again I'm brand new, so bear with me if this is just super simple stuff to you that I'm overlooking. Appreciate any knowledge and help. Thanks

How long do you pause when the case is fully within the die? I like to wait a couple of seconds.

David

 

[swisski]

How long do you pause when the case is fully within the die? I like to wait a couple of seconds.

David

I maybe wait a second or two. I can try consistently waiting a few seconds next go around to see if that helps improve. Thanks

 

[dgeesaman]

Is this mixed lots of brass?

 

[swisski]

Is this mixed lots of brass?

These 40 cases came from 2 factory boxes of hornday ELD-X that I had previously purchased. Sorry not so sure that answers your question. In these terms, would you call that two lots?

 

[jpx2rk]

Some cases will size easier than others in the same lot, even more noticeable with mixed lots. The cases that have more resistance with bolt closure, try resizing one of those to see if the issue goes away.

Those two boxes could be considered two lots of brass, especially if the identifying info on the boxes were different, which meant they were made on two different machines, or different days, etc. Look on the end flaps of the boxes and there should be some numbers, which may or may not agree.

 

[rwj]

During setup of the sizing die, are you measuring the reduction in the distance from the case end face to the shoulder?

 

[Straightshooter1]

Hey team,

Question for you regarding my brass after FL sizing with RCBS die. I've installed the die as recommended by RCBS, FL sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred some once fired Hornady brass.

After this process, I took the firing pin out of my bolt, and chambered a few of them to ensure the bolt would close easily enough. While they all close, I've noticed a few are certainly tougher than others and require more force.

I've gathered perhaps inconsistency in case lube practice, and even in the action of my stroke on the press could be a part of it, however I feel like I'm careful to do things the same every time. In measuring with a head space comparator and a sample of 40 cases, most are pretty close, but I'm still having a variance in headspace between .001-.003". Is this normal? If not, any ideas why?

I'd like to not have to check each case every time to be sure it chambers. Once again I'm brand new, so bear with me if this is just super simple stuff to you that I'm overlooking. Appreciate any knowledge and help. Thanks

First, just being once fired, all the cases may not be completely fire formed to your chamber. Then when setting up your die using one of the cases or so to get it adjusted could leave some variation due to all the cases not having the same headspace measurement after that 1st firing. Once the case are all fully fire formed, then the sizing should be more consistent so you don't have the issue so much that you described.

Keep in mind that the neck and shoulder work harden after every firing and so will tend to have more spring-back each time and the amount of it can be different from case to case. I've found the best way to get very consistent headspace from my sizing operation is to anneal after every firing. . . especially if one is using a factory barrel or a non-custom barrel.

 

[K22]

- Which comparator are you using to measure shoulder set back?
- Are you removing the primer on the fired cases before measuring fired case headspace?
- Sizing lube and consistency of application can cause changes. What lube are you using?
- Pausing at the end of the sizing stroke can promote sizing consistency.
- Cases from different lots can require different die setting to achieve consistent shoulder set back.

- Verifying case fit in the rifle chamber w/ firing pin assembly removed is a good way to verify adequate case sizing.

- A group of cases should be dedicated to a specific rifle and their use rotated to maintain the same amount working of the brass.

- Depending on the brand and lot of cases being sized, I will sometime see a variance of + or - .002" shoulder set back especially as the cases age hardened since I don't anneal.

- I set my FL size up so I can make easy adjustments for different groups of cases dedicated to specific rifles. I use Skip Shims which allow me tom merely switch a Shim size to make the adjustment without having to reset the die. Some guys use Redding Competition Shell holders which are much more expensive. Also, there is method of using a No. 17 "O" ring under the FL die lock ring which allows for easy adjustment of amount of sizing. German Salazar explains this method in his Rifle's Journal.

 

[swisski]

During setup of the sizing die, are you measuring the reduction in the distance from the case end face to the shoulder?

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by that specifically. I've been threading the die till it touches the shell holder, than proceed an 1/8 to a 1/4 turn down further per what RCBS states in their manual. With just that instruction right there, is how I've gotten to where I'm at with my original post.

First, just being once fired, all the cases may not be completely fire formed to your chamber. Then when setting up your die using one of the cases or so to get it adjusted could leave some variation due to all the cases not having the same headspace measurement after that 1st firing. Once the case are all fully fire formed, then the sizing should be more consistent so you don't have the issue so much that you described.

Keep in mind that the neck and shoulder work harden after every firing and so will tend to have more spring-back each time and the amount of it can be different from case to case. I've found the best way to get very consistent headspace from my sizing operation is to anneal after every firing. . . especially if one is using a factory barrel or a non-custom barrel.

Thank you for this. After a bit of research, I finally figured this part out. I had read about achieving .002" shoulder bump, and was desperately trying to chase this, incrementally lowering the die. The most I could achieve was a consistent .001" bump before realizing this was likely not even necessary for me at this point, being once fired. To rattle me even more, I did about 30 rounds this way, and even though they chamber super nicely with my firing pin out, they are showing right at or just below minimum spec for headspace on my LE Wilson case gauge. Would this mean they are unsafe to reload?

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are really helping me out and it is much appreciated.

 

[swisski]

- Which comparator are you using to measure shoulder set back?
- Are you removing the primer on the fired cases before measuring fired case headspace?
- Sizing lube and consistency of application can cause changes. What lube are you using?
- Pausing at the end of the sizing stroke can promote sizing consistency.
- Cases from different lots can require different die setting to achieve consistent shoulder set back.

- Verifying case fit in the rifle chamber w/ firing pin assembly removed is a good way to verify adequate case sizing.

- A group of cases should be dedicated to a specific rifle and their use rotated to maintain the same amount working of the brass.

- Depending on the brand and lot of cases being sized, I will sometime see a variance of + or - .002" shoulder set back especially as the cases age hardened since I don't anneal.

- I set my FL size up so I can make easy adjustments for different groups of cases dedicated to specific rifles. I use Skip Shims which allow me tom merely switch a Shim size to make the adjustment without having to reset the die. Some guys use Redding Competition Shell holders which are much more expensive. Also, there is method of using a No. 17 "O" ring under the FL die lock ring which allows for easy adjustment of amount of sizing. German Salazar explains this method in his Rifle's Journal.

- I use the Hornady head space gauge kit with the .375 bushing, that's what their website shows for 6.5 CM.
- All primers are removed before measuring.
- Right now I'm using the Forster High Pressure Case Sizing Lubricant, but I have imperial sizing die wax on the way.

Thanks for all the tips on this. I did discover the Redding competition shell holder set in my research with this, but I just can't find the #1 set in stock anywhere. When available, I plan to order it.

 

[cw308]

swissky
Using a stripped bolt for sizing your brass I think is the best way . What rifle and caliber ? When setting up your die with full contact most of the time your oversizing your brass meaning it will fire in any rifle . Keep brass brands separated , brands aren't the same in thickness . I'm also using the RCBS Full Length die with the Redding Competition Shellholders , the deck heights are lower then the standard shellholder always giving full contact between die and shellholder. When setting up the die just lower the die to Shellholder to remove the slack in the press and the threads in the die , no need to cam over stressing the press. If the case has alittle resistance when sizing , lower the ram and add alittle more lube mostly on the bottom half of the case. How are you cleaning your brass? What press are you using? I found the best way to check the chamber length from bolt face to datum ( shoulder ) is with a Go Gauge . You build up the base of the gauge untill the stripped bolt closes with a slight resistance , that's your zero and from there you can get your .001 on up.. Also worth a Q tip lightly lube the inside of the case mouth , don't lock down the shaft on the expander ball , a light snug so it can self center when sizing. . Hope I Helped .
Chris

 

[dgeesaman]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by that specifically. I've been threading the die till it touches the shell holder, than proceed an 1/8 to a 1/4 turn down further per what RCBS states in their manual. With just that instruction right there, is how I've gotten to where I'm at with my original post.

Here's what I do:
1) Set aside the ones that don't chamber with perfect ease and measure their base to shoulder length. If this group is longer than the brass that chambers perfectly, that's a good sign.
2) Take the longest piece that doesn't chamber smoothly and keep setting your die every so slightly lower (screw in the die so the outer edge of the lockring moves 1/8" at a time) until the sizes brass starts getting shorter.
3) Once you find the point where the too-long brass becomes just right, it should be about as long as the brass that does chamber smoothly. Set the die lock ring and you're done.

Using brass from factory ammo is not quite as consistent as premium virgin brass that's packaged in lots. But you should be able to get it all to chamber consistently without things being too sloppy.

If the brass that doesn't chamber smoothly isn't the longest on your comparator, it's a different dimensional issue and you might need dies that fit your chamber more exactly.

David

 

[rwj]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by that specifically. I've been threading the die till it touches the shell holder, than proceed an 1/8 to a 1/4 turn down further per what RCBS states in their manual. With just that instruction right there, is how I've gotten to where I'm at with my original post.

Thats fine to start, but measuring the “before” and “after” sizing lengths will indicate whether the case shoulder is actually contacting the die shoulder. If the case shoulder length after sizing is inconsistent, and/or longer than before, it suggests that contact is not occurring. One way to check is to apply a marking compound (transfer bluing, Sharpie...) to the case shoulder, size the case, then examine the marked area for contact marks. It is not uncommon to have to modify the die or shell holder to permit contact and ensure proper headspace.

 

[swisski]

swissky
Using a stripped bolt for sizing your brass I think is the best way . What rifle and caliber ? When setting up your die with full contact most of the time your oversizing your brass meaning it will fire in any rifle . Keep brass brands separated , brands aren't the same in thickness . I'm also using the RCBS Full Length die with the Redding Competition Shellholders , the deck heights are lower then the standard shellholder always giving full contact between die and shellholder. When setting up the die just lower the die to Shellholder to remove the slack in the press and the threads in the die , no need to cam over stressing the press. If the case has alittle resistance when sizing , lower the ram and add alittle more lube mostly on the bottom half of the case. How are you cleaning your brass? What press are you using? I found the best way to check the chamber length from bolt face to datum ( shoulder ) is with a Go Gauge . You build up the base of the gauge untill the stripped bolt closes with a slight resistance , that's your zero and from there you can get your .001 on up.. Also worth a Q tip lightly lube the inside of the case mouth , don't lock down the shaft on the expander ball , a light snug so it can self center when sizing. . Hope I Helped .
Chris

Hey Chris,

I have a Tikka T3x Superlite chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm using this to get my feet wet in the reloading world. I was able to just purchase the Redding Competition Shell holder set from a guy on this forum which I look forward to having.

Right now I'm cleaning my brass all by hand, soaking in dishsoap, the tiniest amount of white vinegar and some salt for no more than 30 minutes, then rinsing it through several times thoroughly.

My press is a Lee Challenger breech lock.

I have been lightly lubing the inside of the case neck with a q tip just as you have stated.

I may have to adjust the expander ball as you've described as right now I have it locked down fairly well I believe.

 

[Bill Norris]

Hey Chris,

I have a Tikka T3x Superlite chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm using this to get my feet wet in the reloading world. I was able to just purchase the Redding Competition Shell holder set from a guy on this forum which I look forward to having.

Right now I'm cleaning my brass all by hand, soaking in dishsoap, the tiniest amount of white vinegar and some salt for no more than 30 minutes, then rinsing it through several times thoroughly.

My press is a Lee Challenger breech lock.

I have been lightly lubing the inside of the case neck with a q tip just as you have stated.

I may have to adjust the expander ball as you've described as right now I have it locked down fairly well I believe.

# 1 Shell holder Set will be in the mail in the A M Priority Mail.

 

[swisski]

Here's what I do:
1) Set aside the ones that don't chamber with perfect ease and measure their base to shoulder length. If this group is longer than the brass that chambers perfectly, that's a good sign.
2) Take the longest piece that doesn't chamber smoothly and keep setting your die every so slightly (like rotate the outer edge of the lockring 1/8" at a time) until it starts getting shorter.
3) Once you find the point where the too-long brass becomes just right, set the die lock ring and you're done.

If the brass that doesn't chamber smoothly isn't the longest on your comparator, you might need dies that fit your chamber more exactly.

David

You guys are awesome. Real glad I joined this forum. I really do appreciate it everyone.

Dg, I did almost exactly this before you wrote this. The ones that weren't chambering with ease did measure longer by approximately .002". I adjusted the die, although a little aggressively the first time and shortened it even more than average before.

My next question is, how much does something like comparing to my LE Wilson case gauge come in to play? What I mean is, a lot of brass that I previously resized yesterday (trying to achieve shoulder .002 shoulder bump) now chambers super well, but it's showing just below the min headspace for the cartridge. I want to make sure I'm safe, and was worried if it was too short it could be dangerous to reload.

 

[dgeesaman]

Good you're getting the shellholder set. My instructions assume the ram is not touching the die and you have room to adjust the die down. Sometimes the die is still too long, and those shellholders are a very good solution. Or you can use the shellholders to set the length without fiddling as much with the die lockring.

 

[dgeesaman]

You guys are awesome. Real glad I joined this forum. I really do appreciate it everyone.

Dg, I did almost exactly this before you wrote this. The ones that weren't chambering with ease did measure longer by approximately .002". I adjusted the die, although a little aggressively the first time and shortened it even more than average before.

My next question is, how much does something like comparing to my LE Wilson case gauge come in to play? What I mean is, a lot of brass that I previously resized yesterday (trying to achieve shoulder .002 shoulder bump) now chambers super well, but it's showing just below the min headspace for the cartridge. I want to make sure I'm safe, and was worried if it was too short it could be dangerous to reload.

This should not be an issue as long as you only fire the brass sized to this length in this rifle chamber.

David

 

[swisski]

Good you're getting the shellholder set. My instructions assume the ram is not touching the die and you have room to adjust the die down. Sometimes the die is still too long, and those shellholders are a very good solution. Or you can use the shellholders to set the length without fiddling as much with the die lockring.

Noted. The ram/shellholder was making direct contact with the die throughout all of this process, with minimal cam over.

This should not be an issue as long as you only fire the brass sized to this length in this rifle chamber.

David

Okay. I wasn't sure where the line gets drawn with this kind of thing for safety and being new to it all, I don't want to take any risks.