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New Wildcats

The 7-6.5 prc is about 3 years old. It will take over in f open imo. The 6bra dates back to the 80s. It just had to break a bunch of records to become popular. You almost need a new parent case to have a new wildcat.
I’ve been shooting the 7 Saum (hunting rifles) for years, the attractive thing about the 7 PRC would be a slight reduction in capacity. I think the Saum is around 73 grains H2O and the H2O is around 68 grains for the PRC. Similar velocities. The Saum is such an efficient case. I guess the accuracy of the PRC must be there and it must be easy to tune. If nothing else it sounds like a good excuse to build a rifle.
 
I am very satisfied with the 6BRAI (6BRA) with its 40 degree shoulder. But, I have wondered what 6BR with a radius shoulder like a Weatherby would shoot like? Anyone want to try it? I know Weatherbys are not known for great accuracy because of their excessive freebore and barrels are not match quality. Some did well at 1000 yards years ago with a match grade barrels chambered in 300 Weatherby. If you think about it, the ports in a race engine do not have sharp edges. They have the smoothest radius edges for smooth, even, air/exhaust flow to create the most HP. I wonder if the physics in that thought translates into rifle cartridges?
 
That cartridge has a rim like the 225 winchester is why I asked. What is the parent case?
Parent is the 7.62x53r and there is a very detailed website about its development I made a few years ago here. https://65brlapua.wordpress.com
I must confess though I have neglected it mainly because business is so crazy I did not have any more time to mess with it. Now that the economy is dead and business slows I might get a chance to work on it again.
 
I am very satisfied with the 6BRAI (6BRA) with its 40 degree shoulder. But, I have wondered what 6BR with a radius shoulder like a Weatherby would shoot like? Anyone want to try it? I know Weatherbys are not known for great accuracy because of their excessive freebore and barrels are not match quality. Some did well at 1000 yards years ago with a match grade barrels chambered in 300 Weatherby. If you think about it, the ports in a race engine do not have sharp edges. They have the smoothest radius edges for smooth, even, air/exhaust flow to create the most HP. I wonder if the physics in that thought translates into rifle cartridges?
Thus far as i know, the radiused shoulder has not proven better, or worse than a standard cartridge.
 
This was also my understanding when I was considering a radiuses shoulder.
Grimstod-

Howdy !

I once trial formed some fore-shortened .284Win cases w/ a " semi-hemi " shoulder.
Why ?

During some on-line discussion w/ a " high power " shooter from VA, he expressed doubt that 42gr of a select powder could be contained by a shortened .284 case....using his chosen 6mm bullets... and given a finite cartridge oal he specified ( to fit a magazine ).

I used existig dies, and a engine compression adapter tool co-opted from the auto industry; to do some rudimentary case forming. I was able to show that the sample case did indeed have the capacity to hold the amount of powder he wanted.

My point:
Cases w/ shoulders covering significant powder storage " area " would perhaps at least bring that potential advantage over case's w/ " sharper shoulders " ? The potential value of that increased storage area would likely be heightened for shorter cases ( IMHO )


With regards,
357Mag

With the right powder, a case with ( some amount of ) hemispherical
 
A shorter 284win cases did interest me at one time. What steered me away from it was two things. One I did not like the primer pocket life of the 284. Minaly a problem because it is a rebated rim. Second was that no one was getting great accuracy out of it. I attribute that to donuts forming in the neck as the shortened body is just a lot of work to rework and you have to get your neck turning just right.
Its still an interesting one though. I think most cartridges are to long and put you into donut zone. Ah yes the dreaded donut. Don't salivate any of you coppers on here. It is not the same thing.
 
A shorter 284win cases did interest me at one time. What steered me away from it was two things. One I did not like the primer pocket life of the 284. Minaly a problem because it is a rebated rim. Second was that no one was getting great accuracy out of it. I attribute that to donuts forming in the neck as the shortened body is just a lot of work to rework and you have to get your neck turning just right.
Its still an interesting one though. I think most cartridges are to long and put you into donut zone. Ah yes the dreaded donut. Don't salivate any of you coppers on here. It is not the same thing.
Grimstod -

Howdy !

If one needs to do a large enough " shoulder shove " downward on the case for the wildcat, then heck...
all of the neck' wall is thickened.

There's a pic below, showing the amount of shoulder shove I put on the 7 X 64 case, when forming my
" DEEP 6 " wildcat.

Using just one case forming die in-conjunction w/ an inside neck ream and outside neck turn; I could form
.224" cal, 6mm, .25" cal' and 6.5mm " wildcat " cases off the same " parent " brass.

For the .224" cal and 6mm iterrations, a chamber can be cut using an exisiting reamer. For the .224" cal variant, a .22-6mm Remington ( .224 TTH ) would be run-in "short "; for a nominal .466" base diam.
For the " DEEP 6 " wildcat I shoot presently, a 6mm Remington reamer was run-in short, to get the .466" base diam that allowed use of 7 X 64 as the parent case.


With regards,
357Mag
 

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A shorter 284win cases did interest me at one time. What steered me away from it was two things. One I did not like the primer pocket life of the 284. Minaly a problem because it is a rebated rim. Second was that no one was getting great accuracy out of it. I attribute that to donuts forming in the neck as the shortened body is just a lot of work to rework and you have to get your neck turning just right.
Its still an interesting one though. I think most cartridges are to long and put you into donut zone. Ah yes the dreaded donut. Don't salivate any of you coppers on here. It is not the same thing.
Grimstod -

Howdy, again !

Thinking out loud....
th
Primer pockets loosening:
With my DEEP 6 wildcat, I have some cases w/ 30+ firings on them, and no loosening of the primer pockers encountered. Since this wildcat is formed from the bottom portion of the 7 X 64 case, its upper case' side walls, shoulder area; and ( as-formed ) neck walls are thicker than what is typically enountered w/
many current cases.

DEEP 6 has a 26* shoulder angle. I am thinking the shoulder angle in-conjunction w/ thicker upper case' walls / shoulder are providing resistance to fwd migration of the brass; that can result from firing a cartridge.

That being the case..... I wonder whether a notional wildcat based on a fore-shortened .284Win case ( and with either a "sharp " shoulder or perhaps hemspherical shoulder ) would also be more resistent to primer pocket loosening ? Hmmm.....


With regards,
357Mag
 
All -

Howdy !

Here's a pic of the somewhat crudely formed 6mm wildcat, which was formed on a fore-shortened .284Win case.

The " semi-hemi " shoulder was a byproduct of the final case forming step I used, which was to for the rounded shoulder in a press; using a engine compression adapter I bought @ an auto parts store.

It's not a double radius shoulder.


With regards.
357Mag
 

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Confirmed and addicted with the wild catting hobby, and I take
what I make to match's. The 284 Winchester case has been my
primary case to work with. A short version I call the 284-ELF was
put away due to component sourcing, of which the BR2 primers
were needed for this past match season in another cat I've been
competing with. One match left this year and the ELF will be back
on the bench.
I made a wildcat from 284 win also I called it a 6mmALS ( 6mm-284 short ) started as a .224 but barrel life was to short and ended up as a 6mm ,that I did shoot in a 600 yd matchs and got 3 shots around a inch but could never keep the other 2 in the group . But I was using a 24 power scope a 36 or 46 power would have been better . The 2 middle cases are mine I made my own form and reloading dies . Was a fun project .
 

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All -

Howdy !

Here's a pic of the somewhat crudely formed 6mm wildcat, which was formed on a fore-shortened .284Win case.

The " semi-hemi " shoulder was a byproduct of the final case forming step I used, which was to for the rounded shoulder in a press; using a engine compression adapter I bought @ an auto parts store.

It's not a double radius shoulder.


With regards.
357Mag
Its a good looking design and seams balance. This is one of the reasons I was nearly persuaded to go this route but did not in the end just because I worried to much about thick spots in the brass.
 
Grimstod -

Howdy !

If one needs to do a large enough " shoulder shove " downward on the case for the wildcat, then heck...
all of the neck' wall is thickened.

There's a pic below, showing the amount of shoulder shove I put on the 7 X 64 case, when forming my
" DEEP 6 " wildcat.

Using just one case forming die in-conjunction w/ an inside neck ream and outside neck turn; I could form
.224" cal, 6mm, .25" cal' and 6.5mm " wildcat " cases off the same " parent " brass.

For the .224" cal and 6mm iterrations, a chamber can be cut using an exisiting reamer. For the .224" cal variant, a .22-6mm Remington ( .224 TTH ) would be run-in "short "; for a nominal .466" base diam.
For the " DEEP 6 " wildcat I shoot presently, a 6mm Remington reamer was run-in short, to get the .466" base diam that allowed use of 7 X 64 as the parent case.


With regards,
357Mag
Inside neck reaming has always interested me but I did not understand it relation to outside neck turning. I know it can get rid of donuts but would that only be the case if you are not using a neck expanding ball?
 
Inside neck reaming has always interested me but I did not understand it relation to outside neck turning. I know it can get rid of donuts but would that only be the case if you are not using a neck expanding ball?
Grimstod-

Howdy !

Nice to hear from you !

Using my " DEEP 6 " wildcat as a " for instance ".....

There will be some wildcats where a neck down and more so... a shoulder shove downward on the parent case will result in neck wall thickening that constitutes more than a " doughnut ".

When a large enough redux is made from the original caliber of the "parent " case.....

.....to ( around ) the final neck OD desired desired for the wildcat ( which is controlled by the form die ).....

Then..... all excess neck wall thickness will ( likely ) result in a smaller neck ID than the final ID being sought.

This is an example of where when one would probably need to do an inside neck ream on the wildcat cases

Expander balls:
I myself haven't used an " expander ball " ( such as is found in a FL size die ) for decades, as part of the od my cartridge reloading regimine. I likewise haven't had to FL size for decades..... only shoulder bump and
neck size my brass.

Discussioin:
Again, using my DEEP 6 as an example.... I neck-down and do a shoudler shove of 7 X64 Brenneke.
I use a stock ( LEE ) 6.5 X 55 Swedish FL that has its internal's removed ( no deprime rod/expander ball ) as my " case forming " die.

Cases are rough cutoff for length, then detail trimmed to final case oal desired. The shoulder shove required for this wildcat is sufficient enough to thicken the formed case' neck walls to where the NECK ID is a nominal
.22" cal right from the form die. Since ( for DEEP 6 ) the final calibre desired is 6mm, what I do is an inside neck ream to the final 6mm neck ID ( wildcat calibre ) I want. I also give the neck walls a finite amount of outside " neck turning ", to arrive @ the final neck wall thickness I need.

My rifle chamber's neck OD in-concert w/ my chosen final neck wall thickness, is configured to allow a small amount of neck ID expansion during firing... and the bullets goes on its way. All that is offered as an example of a ( wildcat ) cartridge that does not require use of an " expander ball ".

For another example"
For my first wildcat " .22-35 Remington ", RCBS provided my custom case forming die " set " , which included an inside neck ream " die " and associated .22" calibre inside neck reamer. After the 3-step neck down, the neck walls were thick enought to require an inside neck ream, ergo the inclusion of one with the form die set.

RCBS also made a custom re-loading die set for my .22-35 Remington, that featured a FL size die ( including a deprime rod w/ expander ball ) and a bullet seater. I will say that I only used the FL sizer briefly ( early 1977 ), but the expander ball had basically nothing to do, as.... on that wildcat too.... the neck wall thickness and neck OD I ran in-conjunction with the OD of the chamber's neck provided enough room for neck expansion and bullet release.

I had Fred Sinclair make me a customized L.E. Wilson neck sizer die; and associated NS " bushings ".
This set up I operated usually by tapping the case into the NS " die " using a rawhide mallet. I also used a Sinclair arbor press to operate the die, sat atop a die " base ". I later sped-up things by using a Hornady
" shoulder bump / bushing NS die ". Use of the non-micrometer RCBS bullet seater soon gave way to my adopting use of a L.E. Wilson seater, to which I added a micrometer top.... soon as they came out !
I eventually settled on use of Hornady " Universal style " bullet seater, outfitted w/ their " micro-just " top.

My point: That was another example of where an expander ball was not required.

For necking " up " to make a wildcat, case' neck " expander mandrels " can be used. Sinclair makes an expander die " body ' that accepts a expander mandrels of varying diameters. These are rather robust, and are not " expander balls " as seen afixed to de-prime rods within FL dies.

I hope this helps ?


With regards,
357Mag
 
n example of where when one would probably need to do an inside neck ream on the wildcat cases

Expander balls:
I myself haven't used an " expander ball " ( such as is found in a FL size die ) for decades, as part of the od my cartridge reloading regimine. I likewise haven't had to FL size for decades..... only shoulder bump and
neck size my brass.
I actually went down this road once. But have switched back to FL sizing. It just give better results. I thank that is because it arrests the changes and resets the conditions of the cartridge case.
 

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