New to F-Class
- Thread starter IanD
- Start date
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
Nothing wrong with a Savage. Suggest you read up a bit on F-Class rules and divisions. 6.5 Creedmoor will put you in the Open class regardless of whether you are shooting off of a bipod or $2000 mechanical front rest. You can get into F-Class shooting in the F-TR class with either 223 Remington or .308 Winchester and a bipod. If your intent is to try F-Class with the 6.5 Savage because you are already interested in picking one up, then go for it! Other shooters will help you and most often let you try their rigs so that you can figure out what you want to compete with down the track. Enjoy!!
Here is something to consider. For "approximately" the same money, you can invest in a good used rifle from somewhere in the "classified" ads on this very forum. "Generally" you will get a nice action, nice stock and maybe a "well used" barrel that needs to be replaced. I will give you a real life example, as it came from me. A few months ago I sold a "complete full-blown" F-Open rifle in .300 WSM. It had a BAT Model M action with BOTH a .473 boltface bolt as well as a .532 one. It had a McMillan "Kestros" stock, completely pillar bedded as well as "regular bedding". In this case it had a perfectly good barrel. The gentleman also bought bullets and a boatload of brass. All of this was for $3500.00. All he needed was a good scope.
The point is, you can get what you REALLY need for just a few more dollars. Once you have your rifle, all you need is to replace the barrel after it is burned out. Just my 2 cents..
The point is, you can get what you REALLY need for just a few more dollars. Once you have your rifle, all you need is to replace the barrel after it is burned out. Just my 2 cents..
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
Great! NOT pushing back, but want to ask if your matches are typically mid-range or long-range? If mid-range (300-600 yds), you might consider starting with 223 Rem. I’m not trying to patronize you, but I don’t know how familiar you are. F-class tournaments are typically made up of three 20-round for record matches. So, you’re shooting something like 70 rounds (including sighters) within a couple of hours. .308 can beat you up a bit if you’re not used to it and if you don’t have a good soft buttpad. .223 is very easy to shoot, much cheaper to load, and can hold it’s own in TR except on really windy days. For Long-range (8-900 yds on your range), the .308 will be better (both with heavies, of course).
As @ShootDots wrote, you CAN often find second hand equipment that is MUCH better than factory, and at good prices (I know you were already looking at a second-hand Savage). You’ll have to decide on your budget, but probably not rational to spend big money on gear until you know you like the sport, and you have a chance to decide what discipline/range you want to play at.
Again, suggest you attend some F-class matches and talk to the competitors. EVERY match I’ve every shot at has been very open to new shooters and most competitors will let you look through their scopes or even shoot their rifles to see what you like. (They probably won’t loan you their new $10K rig
). If you don’t piss them off (grin), many will even be willing to lend you a rig to try out in matches (you should, of course, pay for the ammunition they are usually hand-loading for the rifle).
As @ShootDots wrote, you CAN often find second hand equipment that is MUCH better than factory, and at good prices (I know you were already looking at a second-hand Savage). You’ll have to decide on your budget, but probably not rational to spend big money on gear until you know you like the sport, and you have a chance to decide what discipline/range you want to play at.
Again, suggest you attend some F-class matches and talk to the competitors. EVERY match I’ve every shot at has been very open to new shooters and most competitors will let you look through their scopes or even shoot their rifles to see what you like. (They probably won’t loan you their new $10K rig
). If you don’t piss them off (grin), many will even be willing to lend you a rig to try out in matches (you should, of course, pay for the ammunition they are usually hand-loading for the rifle).
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swd
Silver $$ Contributor
Go to as many match’s as you can and introduce yourself and ask lots of questions. You’ll find guys that will happily get you behind their rifles and maybe even get a few rounds off. You’ll likely come across a good used rifle but ask questions here about it before you buy. Not every deal is necessarily a good one..
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323
Silver $$ Contributor
I would definitely go FTR route first definitely less expensive. That’s what I did with my daughter. We had a F/O shooters who had a FTR setup and he sold it to me for a real good deal. She shot that for a year and I had a FO rifle but for her. Then I shot it for a few months and went all in on a FO rifle myself.
That really was a good deal.
Guys brand new to F-Class will have difficulty judging an incredible bargain when presented, and experienced hands with this gear that know what this kind of a list means, either have what they need, or will go ahead and buy it, but not derive optimal use from it if it’s one of many.
I personally think .223 beats .308 for mid-range F-Class. I run a .223 F/TR rifle I built on a Savage Target Action, shooting the 85.5gr Berger out of a 30" Criterion .223 Rem Match barrel I picked up from Northland Shooters Supply along with the action. I actually just set the New Jersey 600-yard F/TR state record (598-36X) with this rifle.
If you run the numbers, a good .223 F/TR load will outperform most .308 loads in the wind unless you’re pushing something like a 200gr .308… and at that point you’re dealing with noticeably more recoil.
As for factory rifles: I personally wouldn’t buy a factory Savage for F-Class. You’ll end up replacing almost everything except the action and bolt anyway. The rifle I have pictured below can be built for around $2,500, and in my opinion you end up with a much better, purpose-built setup.
If you run the numbers, a good .223 F/TR load will outperform most .308 loads in the wind unless you’re pushing something like a 200gr .308… and at that point you’re dealing with noticeably more recoil.
As for factory rifles: I personally wouldn’t buy a factory Savage for F-Class. You’ll end up replacing almost everything except the action and bolt anyway. The rifle I have pictured below can be built for around $2,500, and in my opinion you end up with a much better, purpose-built setup.
Yep... It was a good deal. But that works both ways. Living here in East Tennessee, the wind is not like Arizona. Tricky, fast switching winds here and that sort of negates BIG in cartridges. So, I had 4 F-Open rifles and one had to go, so BIG was on it's way out! Plus, the gent came and picked up the rifle, bullets and brass. He got a good deal >>>> but so did I. I believe he already won a competition with it! That makes me happy! Additionally, I still have my 7mm Sherman Short. However, that will be used exclusively for the Regional here and the State Championship. Other than that, I have a 6 Creed shooting 109s at 3080 and I have a 6.5 x 47 coming that will shoot the Berger 144s. Those will be my "mainstays" at mid-range and 1000.
I assume that you are not in the USA as your range is in meters…
FTR is the way to get into the long range game and less costly than going into F Open right away.
I do shoot F Open and use a 6BR on the “short/mid-range 300-600mtr and 7mm beyond though I started out with the 6BR at all ranges on out to 1’000yds {914mt} and did well with 105-107 projectiles.
Long time rifle competitor here, started with small bore in 1965 while in Middle School, shot a little Air Rifle, a LOT of HP Across the Course and Long Range (1K yds). HM in LR sling but only Master in XC (that dang offhand....!) As I got older I started F-Class, MR and LR in TR and Open. Earlier comments here are very helpful and many here are very experienced F-Class competitors, so good place to ask your question. But yes, according to the rules 6.5 CM will put you in Open against a lot of other really strong rifles with experienced shooters so be aware. IMO your journey should start with visits to local matches and learning as much about wind calls as you can.
I agree with others that say that .223 TR is the best first step. I recently helped a younger friend get started using a Savage target model in 6.5 CM that he already had. (older Model 12 I think) In any case he purchased a pre-fit match barrel in .223 from Northland SS just like CP255, we swapped barrels and away he went. He focused on Mid Range (600 yds) and learned to shoot that rig pretty well. But it really helped him learn good mechanics and wind reading. Now he shoots several purpose built F-Class guns/cartridges at 1K. Travels to a lot of big matches, does pretty well but most importantly has great fun.
You can do the same with a used base gun. I shot a cleaned up/trued R700 action with match barrels for years. Lots of trigger options and the donor actions are pretty cheap in the U.S. If you have the funds a custon action and pupose built F-Class rifle will always shoot better in the hands of someone who knows how to run it AND reads wind well. But in my experience the difference is often not worth the $$s, especially for newer F-Class shooters. Besides, others here are right. Once you start shooting matches with your budget 223 TR rifle you can bump into some great deals on used Target rigs.
I personally now only shoot .223 at 600. CP255 is right. To me the Berger 85.5, good brass and powder is the easy button. Not mentioned yet but you will likely need to learn how to properly reload so that your rifle system performs to it's max. If you already reload, that's great but F-Class tests the load and barrel so be prepared to focus on that. To me it's always been a big part of the sport and I personally enjoy it.
I agree with others that say that .223 TR is the best first step. I recently helped a younger friend get started using a Savage target model in 6.5 CM that he already had. (older Model 12 I think) In any case he purchased a pre-fit match barrel in .223 from Northland SS just like CP255, we swapped barrels and away he went. He focused on Mid Range (600 yds) and learned to shoot that rig pretty well. But it really helped him learn good mechanics and wind reading. Now he shoots several purpose built F-Class guns/cartridges at 1K. Travels to a lot of big matches, does pretty well but most importantly has great fun.
You can do the same with a used base gun. I shot a cleaned up/trued R700 action with match barrels for years. Lots of trigger options and the donor actions are pretty cheap in the U.S. If you have the funds a custon action and pupose built F-Class rifle will always shoot better in the hands of someone who knows how to run it AND reads wind well. But in my experience the difference is often not worth the $$s, especially for newer F-Class shooters. Besides, others here are right. Once you start shooting matches with your budget 223 TR rifle you can bump into some great deals on used Target rigs.
I personally now only shoot .223 at 600. CP255 is right. To me the Berger 85.5, good brass and powder is the easy button. Not mentioned yet but you will likely need to learn how to properly reload so that your rifle system performs to it's max. If you already reload, that's great but F-Class tests the load and barrel so be prepared to focus on that. To me it's always been a big part of the sport and I personally enjoy it.
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I think you truly should decide on whether you want to shoot F class or FTR before spending your hard earned money.
FTR - plus: 308 barrels last a really long time and saving you some money, 223 is cheaper to buy and load, bipods are generally cheaper. Good if you don’t have a lot of money to spend.
Negatives: Ftr is really almost impossible to truly compete with custom built f class rifles and rests, especially at 1000 yd matches. However, if you just compete against other FTR people you will be fine and have fun.
F-class: Buy once, cry once, more expensive but if you are wanting to truly compete against F class and that is what your area mostly shoots. Buy a quality rifle in 6 dasher, 6 bra (600 yd) or 7mm / 300 wsm (if you will mostly be shooting 1000 yd matches) or one of each ;-). I believe the 7mm and 300 wsms are now often being shot at 600 yd competitive matches hence why we are now seeing so many more cleans at 600. Just my opinion or 2 cents worth
FTR - plus: 308 barrels last a really long time and saving you some money, 223 is cheaper to buy and load, bipods are generally cheaper. Good if you don’t have a lot of money to spend.
Negatives: Ftr is really almost impossible to truly compete with custom built f class rifles and rests, especially at 1000 yd matches. However, if you just compete against other FTR people you will be fine and have fun.
F-class: Buy once, cry once, more expensive but if you are wanting to truly compete against F class and that is what your area mostly shoots. Buy a quality rifle in 6 dasher, 6 bra (600 yd) or 7mm / 300 wsm (if you will mostly be shooting 1000 yd matches) or one of each ;-). I believe the 7mm and 300 wsms are now often being shot at 600 yd competitive matches hence why we are now seeing so many more cleans at 600. Just my opinion or 2 cents worth
F Class John
NRA Life Member
I won't get into Open vs. TR as that's a personal choice and many factors can go into it BUT....
As everyone has said, and I'll echo their statements, spend the money now if you even remotely think you want to seriously competitive. It'll be much easier to sell if you don't end up liking it, and you'll get way more money back than a stock rifle. And honestly it won't be all that much more if you find a good used one as others have said.
But the bigger benefit is that you'll learn faster, get better feedback on your load development, your shooting, wind calling and you'll never have to wonder if it's something about the gun that's holding you back which is priceless. I went from a Ruger RPR to a Savage BR and then finally built a real f class gun. I would've saved so much money time and frustration had I just jumped in right away. Custom actions give you the consistency for so many reasons that just can't be found any other way.
As everyone has said, and I'll echo their statements, spend the money now if you even remotely think you want to seriously competitive. It'll be much easier to sell if you don't end up liking it, and you'll get way more money back than a stock rifle. And honestly it won't be all that much more if you find a good used one as others have said.
But the bigger benefit is that you'll learn faster, get better feedback on your load development, your shooting, wind calling and you'll never have to wonder if it's something about the gun that's holding you back which is priceless. I went from a Ruger RPR to a Savage BR and then finally built a real f class gun. I would've saved so much money time and frustration had I just jumped in right away. Custom actions give you the consistency for so many reasons that just can't be found any other way.
My nearest F Class match is a good 3 hour drive from my residence, as well as any ranges/clubs having ranges at or above 300 yards. I have been to one sanctioned match, leaving my home at 0300. By the end of the day I was beat. But I didn't come in last which was my goal. 
It sounds like you can shoot a match near your residence which is a big bonus. I started with two used but rebarreled Savage rifles, one in 308, the other a straight 284, both costing less than a $1,000. I have a 900 yard range in my backyard so I shoot "one man" matches several times a month. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.
I love it. Hopefully you will too.
It sounds like you can shoot a match near your residence which is a big bonus. I started with two used but rebarreled Savage rifles, one in 308, the other a straight 284, both costing less than a $1,000. I have a 900 yard range in my backyard so I shoot "one man" matches several times a month. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.
I love it. Hopefully you will too.
Acyr
Gold $$ Contributor
Ben, I am happy to see you are still shooting! We miss you out here in AZ.
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