New substitute for Varget?

[Laurie]

If you meant to quote me i was saying the xbr8208 was touted by hodgdon to be a game changer in the benchrest game but i was saying its been out for 11years and hasnt yet. Before this shortage it was readily available at every store

I misread your post there. As far as I can see, the pre-production lots of 8208 XBR behaved rather differently (better) and the powder never fulfilled its promise after general release. If I have my facts right, this is Hodgdon / ADI's second unsuccessful attempt to knock Viht N133 off its BR perch as H. Benchmark was likewise promised to do this a few years earlier prior to its general release.

I used quite a bit of 8208 when we could get it in 308 for F/TR. I found it an excellent powder for 155s and it was my go-to for the 155.5gn Berger. Others here also tried it in 308 and rejected it as not giving high enough MVs in this application (as did US F/TR team members in the run-up to the 2013 F-Class World Championship fixture). It is certainly a bit over 'quick' for 185s and heavier bullets in the cartridge.

 

[benchrest]

scary times. i look around midsouth, powdervalley and midway and hardly any bullet ,powder, primer is available.
i bulked up last year only because this is election year, we knew a drought would come....we just didn't expect this bad of one. it may be a few years before shelves actually get stocked again.

i got scared recently and bought 8lb of 4166 just because I'm below 12lb of Varget. ive never even tried the stuff. i will load develop for it this week.

where is Shooters World Powder made? is it just re-labeled Lovex?
SW Precision is another i want to try. my guess is that we will see it again before Varget.

 

[Laurie]

where is Shooters World Powder made? is it just re-labeled Lovex?
SW Precision is another i want to try. my guess is that we will see it again before Varget.

Yes, it's Lovex. Made by Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic. This is a very competent outfit with a long history and great experience. I'd recommend Lovex SO62 / SW Precision as an excellent 'plain-Jane' single-based tubular powder in the H4895/VarGet/4064 class having used it for many years. I can't comment much on its temperature stability as this isn't a great issue in always cold northern England, but some posts in another recent AS thread on its use vice VarGet in 6BR have reported favourably on this aspect.

 

[benchrest]

i will have to call my source on the SW Precision. i may buy an 8lb jug of it too.
i dont have much faith in finding varget before 2022

 

[T 700]

For those that's tested IMR 4166 how does it compare velocity and accuracy wise with varget? Also temp sensitive?

 

[TylerFromMS]

For those that's tested IMR 4166 how does it compare velocity and accuracy wise with varget? Also temp sensitive?

In a dasher and straight br, for the same charge weights, varget would be about 15fps faster than 4166, and 4166 15fps faster than SWP. It is much cleaner than varget, and my barrels barely had any copper residue. Great substitute, honestly, and I found it to have the same temp swings as varget. SWP was about the same, as well.

 

[clowdis]

For those that's tested IMR 4166 how does it compare velocity and accuracy wise with varget? Also temp sensitive?

Using it in .308 with 155 grain bullets and can see no difference in accuracy. It does seem to be a bit cleaner although the fouling is darker. The actual loading needs to be reduced a tad since the speed of 4166 sort of lies between 4895 and Varget. Try it, you'll like it. In these times you need to be flexible and have alternatives for almost everything.

 

[Rainbow1]

Has anyone had experience with A2520 for 308 168-185g rounds? The burn rate is between 4166 and varget. It would seem a decent replacement as well.

 

[nakneker]

SWP powder is available from a few sources. I see it On gunbroker, lots of it. Midsouth is also carrying the line, they are currently out but you can backorder it. It’s reasonable priced too. Thanks for the info on this powder. I ordered 8 pounds to try. I have a good supply of Varget but it can’t hurt to find other good powders for all things Varget. Given the background Laurie gave on it I wanted to try some. Thanks again Laurie for your comments, what an asset your are to the forum!

Shooters world also has a decent website that has burn charts for comparison with their powders and more familiar powders comparing them. There is a decent amount of load info on their website too, enough to get you started.

 

[Laurie]

Shooters world also has a decent website that has burn charts for comparison with their powders and more familiar powders comparing them. There is a decent amount of load info on their website too, enough to get you started.

There are two burn rate charts on the SW site - SW's own and the manufacturer's (Explosia / Lovex). I'd suggest use the SW chart as some of the Lovex ratings are well out. For instance, it shows SO65 (SW 'Long Rifle') on the same level as VarGet. A VarGet replacement, this powder is not - in cartridges like 308 Win you end up with a compressed charge while pressures and MVs are still well below par. As SW recognises, it's a good powder in the mid size 6.5s and sevens being closer to the 4350s than to the 4895s and VarGet. (I use it in a 7mm-08 pet load with excellent results and SW reckons it's a great 6.5 Creedmoor propellant.)

 

[nakneker]

There are two burn rate charts on the SW site - SW's own and the manufacturer's (Explosia / Lovex). I'd suggest use the SW chart as some of the Lovex ratings are well out. For instance, it shows SO65 (SW 'Long Rifle') on the same level as VarGet. A VarGet replacement, this powder is not - in cartridges like 308 Win you end up with a compressed charge while pressures and MVs are still well below par. As SW recognises, it's a good powder in the mid size 6.5s and sevens being closer to the 4350s than to the 4895s and VarGet. (I use it in a 7mm-08 pet load with excellent results and SW reckons it's a great 6.5 Creedmoor propellant.)

Thanks Laurie! I‘lol adjust my intended use. Playing around with N555 now, I’ll play with this next. More curious than anything, it would be nice to have more options for powders than the norm.

 

[ChrisNZ]

I believe that Varget = N140. ..

Ahh, it's definitely not. Only co-incidence that they're very similar in characteristics

 

[USMCDOC]

Yes, it's Lovex. Made by Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic. This is a very competent outfit with a long history and great experience. I'd recommend Lovex SO62 / SW Precision as an excellent 'plain-Jane' single-based tubular powder in the H4895/VarGet/4064 class having used it for many years. I can't comment much on its temperature stability as this isn't a great issue in always cold northern England, but some posts in another recent AS thread on its use vice VarGet in 6BR have reported favourably on this aspect.

it's funny, (oh and please excuse any errors, i'm typing with a broken hand), the statements about SW Match Rifle and the BR, when i looked at it on Gordon's and did some work up, it appears that it would be well suited for it. Better than teh Precision

what i can say is tht 29.8 of Precision is shoothing well , this is with the sie 107

 

[AccelR8]

That's Vargat - Hon, he's from Rowsdale.

Around here there's people who call it "Varjet"

edit, by the way I've spent plenty of time lately pulling down my 2020 season Service Rifle ammo (which I spent plenty of time loading last winter) to get the Varget out of it...

 

[Lone Hunter]

I run Precision in the 6BR and SW4350 in the 6XC. I sold the varget and will not be buying anymore. The SW4350 is doing pretty good in my 6XC and I will be trying it in the .243 as soon as I get it finished. This is with a 105 Berger Hybrid.

 

[Ccrider]

Around here there's people who call it "Varjet"

edit, by the way I've spent plenty of time lately pulling down my 2020 season Service Rifle ammo (which I spent plenty of time loading last winter) to get the Varget out of it...

Why?

 

[T 700]

Thanks for info, I would be using it in 6BRA and maybe a dasher, nice to know guys are having luck with other small to mid size cases.

 

[AccelR8]

Why?

Use it (Varget) for varmint loads...don't think I'll be doing Service Rifle next year

 

[benchrest]

Using it in .308 with 155 grain bullets and can see no difference in accuracy. It does seem to be a bit cleaner although the fouling is darker. The actual loading needs to be reduced a tad since the speed of 4166 sort of lies between 4895 and Varget. Try it, you'll like it. In these times you need to be flexible and have alternatives for almost everything.

Worked up a load in my Dasher with 4166 & 105s. To me it seemed to have a smaller accuracy window than Varget. Shot best about 1/2gr lower than my Varget load and that seems to be the high end charge with it.
So far it works, more testing to do. No chrono speeds yet on it. Being at almost max charge, I’m curious of how fast it is going compared to Varget.

 

[shb]

Has anyone had experience with A2520 for 308 168-185g rounds? The burn rate is between 4166 and varget. It would seem a decent replacement as well.

In my misspent youth I worked in a custom rifle shop. They had a 3 shot 1/2 moa guarantee on their rifles.

The ammo they used for test targets for 308 used a2520, and 165 bullets. Can't remember the bullet.