I think you should also start looking at the local gun shows in your area, you can really find some good deals on heavy barrel stuff this time of year, most guys are looking for the light deer rifles. This past weekend at a show I ran across a remington 700bdl, heavy barrel, walnut stock rifle in 7mm-08 that was in decent shape, it had a burris 12x scope on it, with burris bases/rings for $650. that was a really good buy, and that gun was built back when remington was building nicer stuff. I should have bought it, but formula and diapers are in high demand right now!!
New Shooter
- Thread starter SeaWasp
- Start date
SeaWasp, maybe a little explaination will clarify things.
An eastern whitetail deer has a kill zone approximately the size of a 9" pie plate. A bullet striking that area will almost certainly puncture at least one lung most likely both lungs . Mission accomplished dead deer , venison on the table.
Target shooting is a different mentality . Accuracy above all else , while an 8 or 9" group might work for hunting deer at 200 yds you will be trying to put your rounds into a 2" or smaller dot at 200 yds.
I would venture to say that most of the guys that post here would not be thrilled with anything that shot over 1/2" at 200 yds. I'm new at this compared to the guys here ( I don't post a lot but I read all I can ) , I've been "really" trying to shoot accurately for about 3 years . I wouldn't be happy with a two inch group at 200 yds , a one inch group is OK but I'm trying to get into the sub 1/2" group at 200 . I've done it, but I want to be able to do it consistantly... I'm not there YET.
Mike
An eastern whitetail deer has a kill zone approximately the size of a 9" pie plate. A bullet striking that area will almost certainly puncture at least one lung most likely both lungs . Mission accomplished dead deer , venison on the table.
Target shooting is a different mentality . Accuracy above all else , while an 8 or 9" group might work for hunting deer at 200 yds you will be trying to put your rounds into a 2" or smaller dot at 200 yds.
I would venture to say that most of the guys that post here would not be thrilled with anything that shot over 1/2" at 200 yds. I'm new at this compared to the guys here ( I don't post a lot but I read all I can ) , I've been "really" trying to shoot accurately for about 3 years . I wouldn't be happy with a two inch group at 200 yds , a one inch group is OK but I'm trying to get into the sub 1/2" group at 200 . I've done it, but I want to be able to do it consistantly... I'm not there YET.
Mike
SeaWasp said:
I have no hesitation in recommending the Lee Anniversary Kit. However, that gun would not be a great choice for target shooting in my opinion. Barrel is too light, and short. Scope probably not up to target quality -- likely made in China.
I would suggest this model at the link below is a significant step up. In the US you should be able to get these for quite a bit under the Savage list price.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12BVSS
Seawasp, I was in exactly the same situation as you a year ago.
I bought a 223 A-Bolt target rifle from Browning because it was less expensive than the Savage. Put $5 Weaver bases on it and a $200 Tasco 10-40x50mm target scope.
Using Lake City brass, CCi 400, Varget and Sierra 69 MKs and a whole lot of courage I started bench rest shooting at 100 and 200 yds in the heavy varmint class. My last result at 200 yds was only 246-2x because I don't know how to dope the wind yet.
I have recently purchased a Savage Fclass in 6br with a Nightforce scope and can honestly say that the Browning is more fun to shoot. The set trigger is awesome.
Browning is a bad word in the target shooting community but their Target rifle is a real sleeper. No I am not on medication ;D
I bought a 223 A-Bolt target rifle from Browning because it was less expensive than the Savage. Put $5 Weaver bases on it and a $200 Tasco 10-40x50mm target scope.
Using Lake City brass, CCi 400, Varget and Sierra 69 MKs and a whole lot of courage I started bench rest shooting at 100 and 200 yds in the heavy varmint class. My last result at 200 yds was only 246-2x because I don't know how to dope the wind yet.
I have recently purchased a Savage Fclass in 6br with a Nightforce scope and can honestly say that the Browning is more fun to shoot. The set trigger is awesome.
Browning is a bad word in the target shooting community but their Target rifle is a real sleeper. No I am not on medication ;D
I wouldn't say that Browning is a bad word, only not as popular as some of the others. I have a buddy who shoots a Browning similar to Tozguy's, and the thing will shoot for a factory rig, so well that it has occasionally upset me with how well it does, and on more than one occasion. (getting shown up by a factory rig isn't that cool when you have a semi-custom rifle made for the bench)
It doesn't need to be a Savage, but they do make some very accurate rifles that have very good prices. Just a really good starting point.
It doesn't need to be a Savage, but they do make some very accurate rifles that have very good prices. Just a really good starting point.
Hey, I have nothing against Browning. They make great trap guns. ;D
+1 for the 12bvss in .223 a father and son shoot one at 600 yds in factory class at our range and do very well i'm the range officer and they gave me there load , i shot it in a latter test i have the same rifle and it shot very well but i shoot short range for now with my 30br hope it helps Mark
All these posts are "Great" information !!!
Its hard diving into such an "art" with little to no knowledge of the mechanics.
The advice and recommendations are Very Much Appreciated !!!
I believe that the picture is starting to develop in my head, and there is much I need to read, questions to ask, and things to see/feel.
As I go over these posts I collect the information and see what's being mentioned most, and what is recommended to stay away from.
This is a Great Thing !!! Thanks to all for their input, and I'll be posting back here with any inquiries about the equipment.
The members here are really kind to "wanna-bees" .... and us "wanna-bees" REALLY appreciate it !!
Its hard diving into such an "art" with little to no knowledge of the mechanics.
The advice and recommendations are Very Much Appreciated !!!
I believe that the picture is starting to develop in my head, and there is much I need to read, questions to ask, and things to see/feel.
As I go over these posts I collect the information and see what's being mentioned most, and what is recommended to stay away from.
This is a Great Thing !!! Thanks to all for their input, and I'll be posting back here with any inquiries about the equipment.
The members here are really kind to "wanna-bees" .... and us "wanna-bees" REALLY appreciate it !!
I hate it when I type a reply and then happy fingers hit the wrong key and it vanishes!! Dang. You've received lots of dandy advice and I'll throw more your way. A key note was struck when someone mentioned future options. .243Win, .260Rem, 7mm-08, ,308Win all share the same family of brass so I would want you to start with the 6mm (.243Win). good compromise between small cal. and large cal. with some shared reloading components and all function thru the same size action. They are all winners in their own right for many tasks. Don't overlook the gunshows. My local gunshows are quite large and in any one of these you could find everything you want or need for your new hobby. Back in the day I too looked for a bargain setup and a RCBS kit called "Reloader Special" was on the shelves and found it's way home with me. I have never used anything else since. Good bench shooters and good reloaders are deep thinkers and we can provide you with most all the answers to your every question. I don't believe any book store or library could feed you as much info as you will find here. And it is all born from experiences, in many cases lifetimes of experince. An aside, EABCO.COM offers some bargains on good Japanese optics as well as SWFA site. Good luck, move slowly, and enjoy! Bill
Thanks Bill ... yes, its all been good infoe !!! I think you are on the mark about versatility, or growing with the setup.
I'm am pointing toward some of the options you have mentioned. There's a few peeps around here I want to touch base with. In the mean-time I'm checking out web sites and reading "alot" here.
I just noticed there is a Gun Show here next weekend .... I plan on attending.
I'm am pointing toward some of the options you have mentioned. There's a few peeps around here I want to touch base with. In the mean-time I'm checking out web sites and reading "alot" here.
I just noticed there is a Gun Show here next weekend .... I plan on attending.
Currently I've been coming back to the:
Savage Arms Model 12 Varmint Low Profile Bolt Action Rifle 243 Winches
Savage 243 Win. w/Detachable Box Mag/26" Barrel
SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: 18467
Category: FIREARMS - RIFLES
Action: Bolt
Caliber: 243 Winchester
Barrel Length: 26"
Capacity: 4 + 1
Trigger: Accutrigger
Safety: Thumb
Length: 46 1/4"
Weight: 10 lbs
Stock: Laminated
Finish: Stainless Steel
Haven't really investigated optics yet, but picking up good infoe as I check out rifles. The best stuff is at forums, such as this one, and Manufactures web sites.
Thanks for the input !
Savage Arms Model 12 Varmint Low Profile Bolt Action Rifle 243 Winches
Savage 243 Win. w/Detachable Box Mag/26" Barrel
SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: 18467
Category: FIREARMS - RIFLES
Action: Bolt
Caliber: 243 Winchester
Barrel Length: 26"
Capacity: 4 + 1
Trigger: Accutrigger
Safety: Thumb
Length: 46 1/4"
Weight: 10 lbs
Stock: Laminated
Finish: Stainless Steel
Haven't really investigated optics yet, but picking up good infoe as I check out rifles. The best stuff is at forums, such as this one, and Manufactures web sites.
Thanks for the input !
BBTC48 said:
Thanks Mike ... but I owe the credit to Bill (BBTC48). It just so happened that he arranged his words that seemed to clear alot of things up for me. I did check out the 300s, and the 223s, but the 243Win seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. Options at this stage (entry level) are critical. After making this decision, I'm off to the land of Optics and then loads. It'll take some time, but I'm getting some great advice here, and other places, that I'm sure will complete the picture for me.
I really appreciate all the great advice, and help here.
Oh .... Just so I'm thinking correctly, would it be ok to break-in a rifle using off the shelf loads ???
If I just happen to get the setup before getting the load equipment.
I figure it will be more expensive at first by using stock loads and buying the load equipment to make my own, but I know nothing about it. I am however looking forward to it.
Thanks everyone !
If I just happen to get the setup before getting the load equipment.
I figure it will be more expensive at first by using stock loads and buying the load equipment to make my own, but I know nothing about it. I am however looking forward to it.
Thanks everyone !
SeaWasp, I think the .243 is a great cartridge, especially for varmint hunters. It is somewhat overbore, and a bit hard on barrel life. You are probably looking at 1500 rounds of accuracy compared to 3000+ for the .223. On the other hand it is probably more suitable for longer ranges than the .223.
There is nothing wrong with using factory cartridges, but consider what you are left with for brass. Brass can have a significant affect on your target accuracy. In the long run I don't think brass cost is a big factor. Barrel life, bullets, and powder are higher, as you can get 20-30+ fires out of a case. I would invest in good brass from the start. In the .223 you can get Lapua brass and you will be off to a good start. I think far better to use good components, and compromise a bit on reloading equipment, like using Lee.
Your Savage gun choice now is a good one, compared to where you were earlier. On a scope if all you are really interested in is target shooting, I would check these boards for a used Weaver T36, or Sightron fixed 36 power which is very similar. The Sightron II model may be slightly lower in quality, and the SII Big Sky higher than the Weaver. $400 range new, but should be lower used.
There is nothing wrong with using factory cartridges, but consider what you are left with for brass. Brass can have a significant affect on your target accuracy. In the long run I don't think brass cost is a big factor. Barrel life, bullets, and powder are higher, as you can get 20-30+ fires out of a case. I would invest in good brass from the start. In the .223 you can get Lapua brass and you will be off to a good start. I think far better to use good components, and compromise a bit on reloading equipment, like using Lee.
Your Savage gun choice now is a good one, compared to where you were earlier. On a scope if all you are really interested in is target shooting, I would check these boards for a used Weaver T36, or Sightron fixed 36 power which is very similar. The Sightron II model may be slightly lower in quality, and the SII Big Sky higher than the Weaver. $400 range new, but should be lower used.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Go svage all the way because if you do you can buy any barrel you want that matches your bolt face.They are easy to install and are affordable. Start with the .223 and work up as savage can also have a bolt head change to go from .223 family to belted magnum face merely by spending the 20.00 or 30.00 for a new bolt head.Savage has designed this rifle to be production simple to build and they accidently built the most home gunsmith friendly system there is.You will love it.The .243 is a little hard on barrels,but I love the caliber.I would stay down with a .223 lrpv model or the predator model.You will see them on this site for sale often or go with a great little cartridge such as 6mmbr model lrpv.There is one for sale on this site right now. This caliber is similar with the .243 but much gentler on the bore. Good luck and be safe.
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