New Shilen barrel out of specs

[butchlambert]

Oliver88, I guess you haven't been around the block yet. When you chamber in the steady you cut off the ends, cut precision centers, and do a cleanup cut on the OD of each end coaxial to the bore. This is done between centers. Now when it is in the steady the OD is coaxial to the bore.
There ain't no single method to skinning this animal.
After you have traveled around the block and looked over the shoulder of several of the top accuracy smiths you will find even us that do it in the headstock do it several different ways.
Butch

 

[butchlambert]

oliver88,
I may have been a little too strong and yes I believe in the headstock as the best method. I just wanted to point out that they can be done in the steady if prepared properly. Some of the guys have gone to the trouble to make a cathead to fit in the steady or clamped to the ways.
Sorry I jumped you.
Butch

 

[dennisinaz]

The headstock on many lathes is too long to chamber anything but the longest barrels through them (my Nardini for instance) in this case, You can do one of a few things- use the method Butch suggests, or use a cat head. If set up properly, I think you can hold pretty good tolerances this way and indicate as deep in the bore as your indicators will reach.

 

[spitfire_er]

I have been around enough to know what you talking about. Not the way that I was taught or the way that I will ever do mine.......

Most guys that do it that way do it because they don't have a big enough hole through the headstock.

I just got pissed that this guy is complaining about Shilen barrels and how they are out of spec and that barrel was probably fine from the start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No more comments from me

I have a big enough lathe to do a heavy 1.45" bench barrel through the headstock. The barrel was not fine. I had a master gunsmith with me that has been doing it for longer than you have probably been alive, and he said it was junk. The worst barrel he has seen in 20 years. (Not my words!) I was the one that said, we should try and fix it and see what happens! This comming from a guy that has not only been a smith, but has been building custom hunting and bench rifles for the past 45 years for guys all over the world, with more titles than you can imagine.......

Besides, my personal hunting rifles that I have built consistentley shoot under 1/2" with stainless Hart and Douglas barrels. Just whats been working for me. All done with a steady rest!

So, I'll take his opinion over yours!

 

[kevinthree]

These aren't out of spec., all the barrels I've done have this runout on the outside since nearly all barrel makers polish them, off the lathe, in some form of "barrel spinner". The bore is your guide. I put barrels between centers and turn the shank concentric with the bore. I also make a small concentric section on the muzzle end. It makes indicating it true easier later. You should check some takeoff factory barrels to see some real runout.

 

[butchlambert]

kevinthree,
You're wasting your time. They know Super Engineering Barrel Co. puts out perfect barrels.
Why did this even get on the forum? Your super smith said it was bad and you said they would take care of it. Seems it should never been posted.
You should have sent it back.
Butch

 

[Jayman_10x]

I believe it would be instructive to notify Shilen about this incident. At the very least they will be notified and can take future corrective action. Too bad it happened because their barrels are typically very good.

Jason

 

[spitfire_er]

kevinthree,
You're wasting your time. They know Super Engineering Barrel Co. puts out perfect barrels.
Why did this even get on the forum? Your super smith said it was bad and you said they would take care of it. Seems it should never been posted.
You should have sent it back.
Butch

Seems to be an ongoing theme of "I know more than you" going on here.

If you missed it the first six times I posted. I never said they were junk, and I use super barrels.... that is just ignorant. The only reason I posted this was to see if in general if this was normal for these barrels.
Not that I don't trust anyone here, but I don't know everyones history, and when someone says "it needs to be done this way, and I have no clue to what I am doing" they are not always correct and I have a hard time taking them seriously. So I have to pull the experience card pertaining to my old gunsmith mentor and what I know. You can come shoot against him, he has a $10,000 standing offer to anyone that can beat his 5 shot group on the wall. It's one hole, so it's impossible, it's been open to anyone for many years now.

By the way Butch... I thought we were over smart ass comments..... guess not. I know you know your stuff though.

 

[spitfire_er]

These aren't out of spec., all the barrels I've done have this runout on the outside since nearly all barrel makers polish them, off the lathe, in some form of "barrel spinner".

That answers my question right there. I think you mentioned it before too butch. I know they all have runout too, but this one was quite a bit worse than all the other barrels I have done. I will also let Shilen know about it.

 

[shortgrass]

kevinthree,
You're wasting your time. They know Super Engineering Barrel Co. puts out perfect barrels.
Why did this even get on the forum? Your super smith said it was bad and you said they would take care of it. Seems it should never been posted.
You should have sent it back.
Butch

Seems to be an ongoing theme of "I know more than you" going on here.

If you missed it the first six times I posted. I never said they were junk, and I use super barrels.... that is just ignorant. The only reason I posted this was to see if in general if this was normal for these barrels.
Not that I don't trust anyone here, but I don't know everyones history, and when someone says "it needs to be done this way, and I have no clue to what I am doing" they are not always correct and I have a hard time taking them seriously. So I have to pull the experience card pertaining to my old gunsmith mentor and what I know. You can come shoot against him, he has a $10,000 standing offer to anyone that can beat his 5 shot group on the wall. It's one hole, so it's impossible, it's been open to anyone for many years now.

By the way Butch... I thought we were over smart ass comments..... guess not. I know you know your stuff though.

Take a couple steps back yourself, Spitfire_er. You're trying to pull the same"I know more, my smith knows more than you do" card, too! It's an internet forum! If ya' got problems with a product, take it up with the manufactuer. If ya' can't get satisfaction from them , then let the world know.

 

[butchlambert]

spitfire, yes, I can be an agitator. Did you ever think that a one hole 6mm group could be 1.22"? Did you know the official smallest one shot group shot in competition was an .009?
I've got a few small targets that were small, shot in competition. I'll make the same offer to you. Come to Texas and shoot a smaller one like I did in competition I'll give you $10,000.
I may be an old fool like your buddy, but I worked for a living several years before I started building rifles for myself and family.
Butch

 

[spitfire_er]

His is hanging on his wall and was witnessed by a couple other people on his own range. Not in competition. I forget the caliber but it's one bullet hole width. He does have several amazing competition groups though. He has his 1966 national match results on the wall in his shop, where he placed 4th, and his son and a couple other friend he build rifles for all finished in the top 20 shooters. Not saying he's a super smith, but he know much more than I.

anyways... I learned what I wanted, so I'm done with this thread. Thanks everyone for their input.

Butch, next time i'm in Texas I would love to try that, but I couldn't put 10K on the table.

No hard feelings to anyone.

 

[butchlambert]

Enuff said

 

[Bnhpr]

Some barrels take a little more or less work by the GS, and it is generally reflected in the purchase price and labor cost. I learned this the hard way.

I had a quarter bore Shilen a couple years ago that was terribly out od and Id, but when I finished, it still shot hole on hole, so I wouldn't panic unless its a dud downrange. It went in the lathe twice unfortunately.

Your procedure could tighten up. Headstock or steady rest doesn't matter, but if the bore is wobbling when you drill/bore/ream, the chamber will run out, I can tell you from personal experience.

Ben

 

[alintx]

I set em up on centers and true both ends, then run a steady rest on the trued surface. I usually cut the tenon to size while I'm there. I switch to a four jaw and indicate off the trued surface too. Seems to work well for me

 

[Sniperhandle]

Zombie Thread Response Crew!

 

[ISS]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

ISS

 

[DR_2297]

What is being referred to as the root?!?

 

[jackieschmidt]

I guess he is calling the shank “the root”.

 

[spitfire_er]

Wow, This is old! I've come a long way since then, learned a few things too. This is almost a pointless thread in hindsight.
Yes, The "root" would have been the "shank" or chamber end.