New Shilen barrel out of specs

[spitfire_er]

So, I finally got around to threadding my Shilen Match SS 1-8" #5 sporter barrel and to my surprise, and disatisfaction, the barrel, mainly the root was waaayy... out of specs.

I set it up on the lathe, getting ready to use a steady rest, and got it chucked and had the live center in and the thing wobbled like hell. I took the plunge and decieded that the work for me to true it up would be quicker than sending it back and getting a new one. So After cutting off some of the root, I got down to a straight bore, centered it and turned the root down. It was about 0.03" out of specs from one side to the other. So I straightened out the shank, threaded and am getting ready to chamber.

The rest of the barrel is out just slightly, but nowhere near as bad as the root was. It's going to be one of my hunting rifles, so I'm sure I could have sent it back, but I decieded I'll give it a try.

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems like this? I've never had problems with other barrel makers, so this is a first for me for a new "higher grade" barrel. I usually use Hart, Douglas, and have a Rock on the way. This is my first try with a Shilen..... I'm not off to a good start for repeat business.

 

[dantiff2]

Why would you take it upon yourself to handle this situation? There is no proof to what you're saying now that you destroyed the evidence ;D

No Seriously.. You should have, at the very least contacted them. These things aren't cheap.


Dan

 

[therifler]

you say the barrel was out of spec. what is their tolerence on round out? T.R.

 

[RandyB]

" I took the plunge and decieded that the work for me to true it up would be quicker than sending it back and getting a new one."
To me therein lies your problem. You accepted it as is and decided to proceed. I"ve been in your shoes. Now you will have to chamber and proceed to see if it shoots or not. At this point it is yours. So to your question about barrel makers my experience is that you can get a bad one from any one of them. They do an extremely good job but now and then one has to fall through the cracks. I will continue to buy from Shilen. RandyB

 

[RandyB]

"out of spec"? I forgot that in prior post. RandyB.

 

[RandyB]

" I've never had problems with other barrel makers, so this is a first for me for a new "higher grade" barrel. I usually use Hart, Douglas, and have a Rock on the way, so this was my first try of a Shilen...." I"ve read that 5 times and it still does not sound right. RandyB.

 

[bigcatdaddy]

I'm a neewb, but this still puzzles me, "one fell through the cracks". Seems more like..."someone didn't do their job". Shouldn't every single barrel leaving be speck'd? If so, how does one "slip by"?

Perhaps it's just semantics?

 

[spitfire_er]

Yes, I did take it upon myself to fix it because I could fix it in less than 15 mins, which to me is better than waiting a month or so, and loosing out in shipping charges. I'm gambling that the bore is straight, but based on the the rest of the barrel and the muzzle, everything else measures out good on the outside and it's perfect at the muzzle. Looks like the root just got F'd up.

The other barrels that I have used have all been perfectly round, or at least almost perfect. When I say out of spec... I'm saying it should be a fixed round diameter, not oval shapped or an off center bore.

That's what I was thinking too.. seems a well known barrel maker should not let these slip through. If I were doing it for someone else I would not have used it, but it's mine, so i'm going with it.

 

[therifler]

hi , guys i had a late night and long day after which i posted a question to the shilen barrel . i noticed i messed up a word .
in the above post" round" out should have been runout. how much runout do they allow in their machining process on a barrel ?sorry for any confussion and your troubles with the barrel hope it works out for you .Let us know if it shoots . T.R.

 

[GabbyJs]

The Shilen website lists a 1.200 Dia. at the chamber end. My last Shilen barrel that I had in the lathe, ran out at the chamber end, but the contour turning was close to true. Since the chamber end miked almost 1.250 Dia., I presume they do the gun drilling and rifling and take what they get as far as concentricity in the blank. After rifling, they provide a rough center to the bore, and contour turn from that. That's my suspicion.

 

[wapiti25]

Almost all of the 20 or so barrels that I have fitted have had runout compared to the bore. You need to set-up your barrels by indicating the bore. I just installed a Krieger in my hunting rifle that the outside runout compared to the bore. I would stop using a steady rest and put the barrel through the head stock using a "spider" on the muzzle and indicate the bore.

 

[spitfire_er]

Thanks guys. This helps me out. Some day, i'll start using the headstock only, but with the setup I have available now, and the way I was taught, the old method has been producing exceptional shooters for me.

My last build in .308 Norma shoots 1/2" 5 shot groups with boring regularity.

I'll get this thing all chamberd and get a few groups out the and report the results. After I trued the outside up to the bore, the root measures just over 1.22" so If they claim 1.2" maybe thats why, but it surprised me to have the outside contour off like it was.

 

[butchlambert]

Gabby Js, you have a PM. You know that I looked all over their website and didn't find a spec that they missed. Would you point it out for me?
Butch

 

[GabbyJs]

spitfire_er
I hope you feel better about the quality of your Shilen barrel. To try and furthur clarify my previous comment, I think it is important to not try to link the chamber end diameter concentricity to the bore with overall quality. There is plenty of extra diameter to turn down to the specified 1.200 diameter that Shilen advertises. If using a steady rest, it would always be necessary to turn this diameter as true as possible to the bore anyway.

Butch
I'm not sure of the spec that you are referring to. The barrel contour chart they list has 1.200 dia. for barrel contours of 1 thru 5 1/2. If the gun drilling is done from the muzzle end, there would be more runout at the chamber end. So turning the OD concentric with the bore would be what I feel is necessary. I cut new centers with a center reamer after I cut both ends of the barrel to the new overall length. I think Shilen offers a good quality barrel and will continue to use them.

 

[butchlambert]

GabbyJs,
I was asking spitfire. If the guys have done many barrels at all and especially in the steady rest, they know that you need to cut off an inch from each end first and cut new precision centers. The first part of anybody's barrel is not suitable for measuring or indicating for chambering. To chamber in the steady rest with anybody's barrel you need to take a cleanup cut after cutting your precision centers. You can't attempt to chamber to a couple"tenths" if you don't make a truing cut. If the OD is out a couple thousandths to the ID, how can you chamber to a couple"tenths".
I've got a cut rifled barrel in my lathe now from one of the or the top barrel maker. Made it easy to check what you are talking about. It has a runout of .015, must be perfect huh? Doesn't matter when done in the headstock, but if I were doing it in the steady I would make a true up cut first. All of this is a whole bunch of nothing that puts a lot of false ideas into the inexperienced peoples minds.
Spitfire, I should have mentioned that Shilen does not machine the big end of the barrel. Every receiver likes a different OD. They leave it like that inorder that you can turn it to your desired OD.
Gabby, did you check your PM?
Butch

 

[spitfire_er]

That's what I was wondering too, how they left their barrel roots. Also I did cut off of each end, and it was a suprise to me that it was off. Most of the other barrels I have done have been mainly Harts and have never ran across this problem before. The Harts are usually very close OD to what they need to be with little to no runout.

I did true everything up and it is the way it should be now, and it runs perfect in the steady rest. I'm not too worried about it, and never said they were junk barrels, just different than the others I've done. I'm not a Master smith ether, but have done enough to know how to do a barrel up. I must be doing something right, I have not done up a barrel yet that shoots worse than 3/4" for hunting rifles.

Even if they do leave the "big end" of the barrel oversized, I would think it should have very little runout. Once again, not bashing Shilen, I have yet to shoot it, but just seems one slipped through, and other than my barrel, I have not heard many bad things about their barrels. Also, I know they would have replaced my barrel if I would have sent it back.

 

[butchlambert]

Spitfire, They could machine the big end, but why? You have to turn the OD anyway. It would take another machining operation and that would cost you more money. Since none of them are perfect, they all need turning.
Butch

 

[spitfire_er]

That makes sense from both ends.

 

[butchlambert]

Why?

 

[BoydAllen]

One very highly regarded Benchrest gunsmith, that does work for a well known writer, who shoots very well, and other top shooters, prefers to chamber using a steady rest. He has multiple lathes, and can do it either way.