New rifle, bizarre problem.

[cheek9075]

i had one where the action was off from front to rear. i had a luepold rail on it and could not get it on paper. didnt have enough adjuctment in the scope even thought the bore sight looked fine.
i took the rail off and tighten the front screws only when i put it back on, doing that i saw the rear of the rail pull up. looked to me like .020 inch. i ended up putting a 2 base scope mount on it and getting the i think burris rings with the inserts taht alow you to off set the scope.
i didnt want to shim the one piece rail, would have work i guess but i didnt want to do it. the 2 piece mount and rings work fine. i bore sighted agian and was on paper.

 

[jonbearman]

I am stymied now.I have the savage flat back reciever.I cant flip it around or anything like that.I dont want to shim it either.When I had the weaver blocks on it ,it worked fine .I spend the bigger money for a 1 piece rail and I have gone through 2 different egw mounts with no satisfaction .Then I will buy a top quality rail from someone who makes premieum parts(ken farrell).

 

[jonbearman]

Jhord,my gun shot 2 feet low also and ran out of scope adjustment and was still 4 inches low at 100 yds.I will get an answer one way or another. It is a shame you didnt know a gunsmith with a range rod to put down your barrel.That would tell you in 1 second if it is anywhere near straight.

 

[normmatzen]

Jon,
I, too, have an old flat back Savage. I put a one piece Weaver rail on it with the same effect. I used Burris mounts with .020" inserts to straighten it out.
It seems Savage had a real problem drilling scope mount holes aligned with the bore! That is why my gun originally came with the "std" mounts with "windage" adjustments on the rear mount!!!

 

[jhord]

Jon- Yeah, I wish I had a gunsmith in my back yard but I don't. Half hour away. It's easiest for me to slap a UPS tag on the box and send it to Savage, so that's what I've done. $14 and it's on the way, not the end of the world, and why pay a gunsmith to figure out Savage's problem? My business is devoted to building high performance engines, so although I'm lacking specific gunsmith tools and knowledge I know my way around measuring instruments, mechanical things and so forth. I too wish I could have indicated the bore to see, but I'm 95% sure at this point the problem lies in the barrel. I've eliminated everything else to the best of my knowledge. If it comes back with a new barrel I will know it. I appreciate everyone's input, and Jon I hope you get yours figured out too.

 

[jonbearman]

Here is what egw told me to do. Take the scope rail and attach it to the rear by the 2 screws and see if it has daylight under it.If not reverse the test and bolt it down from the front and check to see if you have a gap at the rear. Measure the gap and thats how much you have to shim. I tried it on mine and guess what,it had a gap on the front end to the tune of .020 thou. Savage doesnt hold all tolerances to well where the scope mounts go.

 

[dmg264]

If I am reading right dmg264, my problem is a bit different. I can sight thru the barrel and see Point A. Without moving the rifle, the scope is also aligned to Point A and zeroed. Problem is when taking a shot at Point A, the bullet gets chucked over 20 MOA low to Point B. I think it's more like 30 MOA off, actually. (or you're saying after sighting, the barrel and scope are way off... yeah that makes perfect sense)

I'm saying after sighting the scope in they are way off. You did right by sending it back.

 

[jhord]

10-4. Same issue here, after getting it on paper the bore was pointing off toward the next county. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have some sort of happy report to file.

 

[jonbearman]

Kepp us updated as will I,and lets get to the bottom of it.I still think egw has made an error when they measured the reciever they designed the scope mount around.It is frustating to run into this kind of stuff.Should have bought a bat.I just dont have the money,so I will have to fix what I have.

 

[bozo699]

jon,
I don't have any experience with egw bases, I have bought many Ken Farrells, badger, and picitenny's and have never had a problems with them. sometimes I think you get what you pay for. Hopefully it is as simple as the base and you don't have to send your gun back.
Wayne.

 

[Beau]

I'll bet that if you stuck a snug-fitting .218-something inch gauge pin in the muzzle, you'd be able to see that the bore wasn't pointing straight.

It could all be straight except for the last tenth inch or whatever and still throw the bullet off, all the while looking straight to everyone but a trained eye.

 

[jhord]

Update- The rifle has been at Savage for several weeks, without any contact from them, so I called. They did indeed have to put a new barrel on it and now it is due to be "proof tested." (IE, what they didn't do after they built it originally!) Sounds like I will have it back next week.

 

[gpoldblue]

jhord...I had about the same problem with my Savage LRPV---couldn't sight it in even at 25 yards...sent rifle back to Savage and they replaced the barrel...now shoots good. Savage would not tell me what was wrong with the bad barrel. Took about 6 weeks from shipping to get the rifle back!! Good luck...gpoldblue

 

[tiny68]

You can measure your base with a micrometer and see if it is really a 0 MOA. A friend thought he brought the 0MOA EGW mount. He got the 20MOA and put it on backwards and had your problem - however his would zero. I also a 0 MOA from Midway last week and put it on a 308 a built for my son. Perfect. If you decide to call Savage, don't pull the barrel - that voids the warranty I was told. You have to send them the complete gun. I have had bent barrels that shot ok. You can get Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts with any MOA you want to get you back in the center of the scope. I have used with missed aligned holes for the mounts (not true center). Luck, Tim

 

[jhord]

I measured my EGW base every which way and it is 0 MOA, and is flat and straight. I checked with a mic, comparator stand, and a granite surface block. It sat perfectly on my receiver, no gaps, etc, and the rings fit it fine too. Although I bet Jon is having a problem w/his EGW his is a round/flat model and mine is round/round. The plan is to use this gun for local production class benchrest and varmint competitions, maybe get my feet wet with F style shooting hence the 7 twist barrel. I'm not going to work around a crap barrel so that is why it is at Savage getting a new barrel right now. I paid $$ for a gun that will shoot straight, not around corners. I have a Ruger 10/22 for that. ;D

 

[1shot]

I had a barrel some time ago from a top end mfg. that shot great with a scope on, but took 24 moa of L. windage to shoot center with my irons. After talking to my “smith” he ask me how the bbl. shot and I told him great, except for the HUGE cant I had to put on the rifle when I went to my irons. He said that the bbl looked like jump rope while it was in the lathe getting chambered, but he has seen these bbls shoot lights out in the past. I contacted the bbl. maker and they replaced it, no questioned asked. Don’t bother to ask me who the mfg is, I won’t respond. It’s simply a case of a bad one got out. No more, no less. That being said, I bet you have a bent bbl.
Lloyd

 

[jonbearman]

I bolted my egw base down in the back.I realized that there was a .020 gap under the front. I put in my mill and took off the excess amount and bolted it down from the front,measured it and I ended up with a small shim in the back,.002,it now sits level and I will be shooting it fairly soon when deer season is over.I will keep you posted.

 

[queen_stick]

This is an interesting conversation!

Check this out...

I have an old Savage long action (110). Started life as a 25-06 from the factory. I had multiple bases, rings, and 1" scopes on top of that action as a 25-06. Later in life, I had the action re-barreled in 6.5-284. I then mounted a SS 16x scope on there with brand new Leupold bases and Burris 30mm rings. This setup worked great! I recently upgraded to a variable power scope, 2-piece EGW bases (round/flat), and Warne rings. I can't touch the paper at 25 yards.

I know for a fact that the barrel is straight (I've shot it out to 1K with the SS scope Burris rings, and Leupold bases), and the action is not drilled off-axis (never had any trouble in the past). The 2-piece base or rings have to be the cause. This situation is different than what's been discussed here, but it's certainly related. Before sending guns off to the manufacturer, just double check everything, and hopefully find a friend that has some random rings and bases layin around for you to try (A lot less expensive that way!).

Good luck fellas... these problems are the suck! Just go back a bit and read the post by 1shot... a scope may make a bent situation appear to be straight!?!!?!?!?... If that happens to most of us, we wouldn't know it, because we never switch back to irons (depends on the disciplines of course.) Makes you wonder about the rest of your guns....

Walt

 

[jhord]

Indeed it is interesting. I've learned a few things! And although I'm a bit miffed at my luck, as long as Savage takes care of the problem it is water over the dam to me. It sounds from my phone conversation with the pleasant lady at Savage that they agreed the barrel was messed up and it is being sorted out. I know Savage can make good rifles because my brother has a .223 BVSS that I borrowed and with very little load development it was shooting .3-.4 MOA consistently. I think that's pretty darn good for a mass production rifle in the hands of a noob benchrest shooter. (and we had no problems at all boresighting his, ha!) That being said I am learning that sloppy machine work seems to be fairly normal in the world of rifles, with the exception of the custom actions and so forth. I have a bit of a hard time with that. Any barrel that makes it to the customer with a bore that hops like a jump rope, well that's just plain sloppy quality control, lack of pride, and/or some bean counter running the show. In my business I am used to a much higher standard... or else you go broke.

 

[jhord]

I received the rifle back from Savage today. They definitely changed the barrel, the little mark I made on it is not there any more. (a small centerpunch mark in the middle of the first 0 in their zip code... ;D ) I mounted up the EGW rail and scope I used before, scrubbed the bore, boresighted it, and headed outside to my backyard range. It took a couple shots to get it on paper, then it wandered around for a few more shots. Once it seemed like it was settling in I popped off a quick 3 shot group, and it looked about .500" thru the scope. I didn't even bother going back to the target to measure. I was shooting some junk handloads and the sling studs were catching in my rest and rear bag, 20 degrees out, so it was very unscientific. But it looks like now it is shooting reasonably well considering. Now I have to take it apart and get everything set up correctly, then I'll concentrate on seeing what she'll do for real. Thanks to Savage for correcting the issue, "it happens." No hard feelings.