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New projectile question...

So I have tuned a load for my rifle that is IMO Exemplary... I was shooting AA 4350 for powder and Hornady 140g bthp-match that is set into the lands.
My question is if I got some 140g eld-match pills and seat them against the lands, do I have to perform another load dev. ladder or can I just load them at the same charge weight and feel confident they'll perform...
I'm assuming another dev. ladder is in the future.
 
I'd start over and work up. Each bullet design has unique characteristics and different bearing surfaces that dictate loading, pressure, velocity and accuracy levels. The chances that your new bullets will perform well with the old charges, while possible, are usually remote. Caution always beats haste.
 
I kinda figured... And I also agree. Oh well, it is what it is. Think I should do a seating depth ladder as well as my charge weight ladder. I have shot 2 different types of pills previous and my rifle has preferred both on the lands. Think it's safe to assume it'll prefer it with these aswell?
 
I wouldn't assume anything when it comes to the likes and dislikes of any given bullet. Style often dictates good places to start, but many times when all other things are equal, one bullet style may like a light jam while another may do best with a few thousandths jump. Totally different cartridges but to demonstrate my point, my .223 and .22-250 each like both 52-grain Hornady BTHPs and 52-grain Hornady AMAX (ELD-M) but seating is different for each design in both rifles for best accuracy.
 
Find Hard Jam, then Touch, seat your bullet where you normally seat your previous. Load 7 rounds, two for sighter/foulers, and five for test and go fire them to see how they perform.
 
If it were me, I would just use your existing load and seating and see what you have there. I am not sure what your accuracy requirements are. Keep it simple at 1st, you may get lucky and be saving on reloading components.

Regards
Rick
 
Powder charge in the Hornady manual is the same. COAL is the same also at 2.800".

My question is why in the lands?

Not meaning to offend, just my rifles seem to like a jump with the Hornady's. 0.030".
I know, "MY rifles"... :rolleyes:

But the ELD has been very jump tolerant for me.
 
There are several things to consider here. First and foremost, when we "tune" an optimal load in a given rifle, we generally cover reasonably wide windows of both charge weight and seating depth so that we know where both boundaries/edges of the windows are located. This is a big part of the "forgiveness" that tuning a load buys you. Otherwise, it is impossible to know where the middle of the window actually is. For that reason, simply testing an existing load that shot well with a new component (bullet/powder/primer/brass) may be misleading. The same load with the new component may seem to shoot well, but if it is near [or right on] the edge of one of those optimal windows, it can easily go out of tune as the ambient conditions change. That is why most reloaders will tell you to re-do the load workup any time a component is changed.

Second, there may be noticeable differences in the dimensions/specs of the two bullets. The large difference in the G1 ballistic coefficients alone for the 140 gr BTHP and ELDM bullets (0.580 versus 0.646) tell you that there are differences in the bullet external dimensions that cannot solely be accounted for by the plastic tip. Thus, they may or may not behave the same way with your existing load. The only way to know for sure is to do the load workup. Chances are good that optimizing charge weight won't require a huge amount of effort as you already know the charge weight required to drive a bullet of the same weight at a given velocity. In other words, you already have a nice starting point, so testing a few charge weights on either side of the previous load shouldn't be too much effort. You may end up at exactly the same charge weight. Then again, you may not. But at least you'll know.

Seating depth optimization is where I would do a rigorous job of testing. Hornady bullets designs typically have a secant ogive, which can sometimes be very sensitive to seating depth. I'd be sure to cover a sufficiently wide range of seating depths with the new bullet and let it tell you where it prefers to be seated. That may be into the lands, or it may be jumped. The only way to know for sure is to test both and find out. The old adage that secant ogive [VLD] bullet must be seated into the lands is just that, an adage. In fact, I have observed more than one VLD bullet to exhibit seating depth preferences that include both being seated into the lands, as well as jumped. In my hands, the optimal seating depth windows into the lands tend to be much more narrow than the ones that are off the lands (jumped). So unless I have to seat the bullet so far off the lands (i.e. deep in the neck) that the base of the bullet is occupying considerable case volume, possibly causing compressed loads and thereby raising pressure for a given charge weight, I generally choose to jump a bullet that shoots tight within a certain seating depth range both into, and off of, the lands. Regardless, testing seating depth in both regions will provide the answer and allow you to decide what works best for your setup.
 
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So I have tuned a load for my rifle that is IMO Exemplary... I was shooting AA 4350 for powder and Hornady 140g bthp-match that is set into the lands.
My question is if I got some 140g eld-match pills and seat them against the lands, do I have to perform another load dev. ladder or can I just load them at the same charge weight and feel confident they'll perform...
I'm assuming another dev. ladder is in the future.
Yeah you can’t change a component in a load and assume it will shoot the same because 99 times out of 100 it won’t. I hope it’s does shoot the same for you, but you’ll never know unless you run a new ladder.
 
I have worked up loads with the BTHP Match and the A-Max, and ended up with the same load for both. The primary concern would be excessive pressures; however, the A-Max (and ELD-M) has a shorter bearing surface than the BTHP, and the materials and dimensions are very similar. I would be comfortable trying the BTHP load with the ELD - you may be pleasantly surprised and avoid using excess components and barrel life.
 
When you change projectiles you always have to retest for the proper load. Each rifle likes projectiles and powder loads of a particular node.
 
Powder charge in the Hornady manual is the same. COAL is the same also at 2.800".

My question is why in the lands?

Not meaning to offend, just my rifles seem to like a jump with the Hornady's. 0.030".
I know, "MY rifles"... :rolleyes:

But the ELD has been very jump tolerant for me.
Well imo, when I did my seating depth ladder I found with every charge weight, my rifle seemed to shoot better groups 'up to the lands' rather than jumping them...

This is my charge/ seating depth chart. So what we have here is charge weights in .3 grain increments (because my scale skips a .1g increment every 3rd for some reason). So every charge weight has 3 different seating depths. The ones labeled "1" are .03" off the lands, "2" are .015 off, and "3" is just touching the lands.

Now granted this is w/ a 140 match bthp, so the results may differ w/ ELD-Ms... BUT I figured it was a starting point. But imo I think every 3rd group is to a degree tighter than the previous 2...
 

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Seating depth ladder??? :oops:

Kinda like trying to find out which makes your car run better. The new spark plugs, or the new fuel filter? But you did them both at the same time.

One variable at a time.
Yes, I agree. But the spot I shoot at is close to an hour drive so I figured I would kill 2 birds w one stone.
 
I agree with taking it one step at a time. And I would also highly recommend you shoot everything in a ladder at the same point of aim or else it’s not really a ladder test. Ladders will show you nodes where bullet point of impact isn’t effected by small changes in velocity or seating depth. If you aren’t shooting at the same point of aim it’s hard to tell what’s really going on.

What you’re doing there is just shooting groups. Which is fine, but usually shooting for groups comes after a node is found with ladder testing.
 
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Guess i'm lucky in that respect. I have 2 ranges within a 10 minute drive.
Add another 15 minutes and there is a 1,000 yard range.
Looking for a roommate lol. Or a grounds keeper/head of security that sleeps in ur reloading room... I'm very affordable lol, especially with a 1000 yd range less than a half hour away...
 

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