New member with ? about a savage 12 F/TR

[Jager247]

hello, i have lurked around here for a while. I had a savage 12 LPV that i shot in my local match last year. we shoot 100, 200 , and 300 yards. this year i wanted something that would shoot better, so today i ordered a savage 12 F/TR. This will be my first 308 with a a 12 twist rate. I have heard so many different opinions on what to shoot some say i cant go over 155gr and others say i cant use over 180 gr bullets. So i am hoping you guys can point me in the right direction on what to use, maybe even what a good powder also. I have been using IMR 8208 and RL 15 in my 308's in the past and just ran out of powder so i am wanting to try something different with this gun if needed. I also have a pile of 168 SMK's.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

a 12 twist will stabilize the vast majority of 308 offerings.

In Bergers, the 185 LRBT works well, but the 185 Hybrid is a touch harder to stabilize - everything lighter works.

In the Sierra Line, the 190 and below should work quite well.

In Hornady, the 178s and below work, and I don't have enough data to tell you if the 195 match will work.

The 12 FTR seems to really like the Berger 155.5 LRBT Fullbore bullet with Varget. I have some intel on the best loads.

All in all, unless you are looking to shoot 200+ grain bullets, the 12 twist will probably work for you.

 

[Jager247]

thanks busdriver. I dont plan on shooting anything over 180gr anyways. I just read some post on another forum where one of the F/TR savage team members was talking about the berger 155 gr work really well also. but he was shooting a lot farther then what i will be shooting. He also said the Varget powder was what he liked to use.

 

[Jager247]

another question for you guys. what method would you recommend to break in the barrel?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

There are as many opinions as there are shooters here. You can do the shoot and clean, or you can just shoot it and clean after you're done. I do something in between.

 

[MrMajestic]

My 26" 13tw stabilizes the 168 gr. A-Max to 600 yds anyhow. A Savage barrel can be a Bugger to break in! Get yourself some KG Bore Products to ease the pain. They really shoot well however my .223 Remington barrel took 75-100 rounds and then Presto! It stays darn near as clean as my aftermarkets and shoots all but right with them. Good choice of Firearm IMHO.
P.S. Don't bore scope it or you may replace it! Give it a chance! ;D

 

[Laurie]

Here's a table I prepared for part of a series in the Target Shooter free downloadable online magazine (http://www.targetshooteronline.com/).

As advised in the notes, you can usually 'get away' with a full one-inch slower twist in warm summer air conditions. It's not weight directly that determines the required twist rate, more bullet length in relation to calibre + weight. Sierra MKs are relatively short for their length, so work with slower twists; Hybrids are the longest bullets available in each weight and need the fastest twist.


Heavy 0.308” Match Bullet Twist Rates
Bullet MV (fps) Length Twist

155.5 BT FB 3,000 1.250” 12.5”
190gn Sierra MK 2,714 1.353” 12.1”
190gn Berger VLD 2,714 1.386” 11.7”
200gn Sierra MK 2,645 1.393” 11.9”
200gn Berger Hybrid 2,645 1.500” 10.6”
208gn Hornady A-Max 2,594 1.532” 10.5”
208gn Hornady HPBT 2,594 1.510” 10.75”
210gn Berger VLD 2,582 1.490” 11”
210gn Berger BTLR 2,582 1.467” 11.25”
210gn Sierra MK 2,582 1.478” 11.1”
215gn Berger Hybrid 2,551 1.582” 10.2”
220gn Sierra MK 2,522 1.489” 11.2”
225gn Hornady HPBT 2,494 1.583” 10.3”
230gn Berger Hybrid 2,467 1.662” 9.7”

Notes

MVs are representative based on all combinations producing 3,108 ft/lb ME (benchmark 155.5gn bullet @ 3,000 fps MV)
Lengths from Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting 2nd edition by Bryan Litz except for the Hornady 208 / 225gn HPBT and Berger 215 / 230gn models where sample bullets were measured by the author.
The twist rate quoted is that which produces an Sg (stability factor) of 1.4 under standard ballistics conditions. 0.5-1.0 slower rates will normally suffice under UK all year round temperature and barometric conditions.


The 185gn Berger LRBT works fine in 1-12" which is its optimal twist rate (and actually works in 1-13" in summer temperatures) and is a bullet I'd recommend highly - if your barrel likes it that is. The 185gn and 190gn Berger VLDs are OK too. The 185gn Hybrid is a significantly longer bullet than the same weight LRBT (1.435" v 1.353") and needs a faster twist, 1-11" at 2,750 fps MV in standard ballistic conditions (29.92" Hg pressure / 59-deg F temperature) to achieve the recommended 1.4 Sg value. 1-12" is still theoretically stable with an Sg of 1.18, and so the bullet will likely work in the Savage F/TR in good conditions assuming the rifling rate is a true 1-12" (not guaranteed in all factory rifles), but you'd only know for certain by trying it.

 

[Shynloco]

Jager247,
From my experiences of owning and shooting a .308 (Ruger- 1-10 twist) for more than 29 yrs for accuracy purposes and shooting almost exclusively Sierra 168 HPBT over that time and using mostly IMR 4895, RL-15 and Varget, I've found them to be the most accurate bullets for distances of 100 - 300 yds. Now please keep in mind the old doctrine - what works in one rifle doesn't necessarily work in another. But last year or so, I contacted Sierra and their experts told me that beyond 300 yds, they recommend going to 175 gr bullet for accuracy. I believe you have bought a better rifle than mine as I own two other centerfire Savages that are extremely accurate right out of the box with only having been bedded and the trigger pull adjusted. But when I tried the 155 gr Lapua Scenars, I got terrible results and some of the other brands with weight variations from 150 -195gr weren't as good as the Sierra's. As a side note, a friend who shoots a 308 in Palma competition has terrific results with that bullet. Might also consider going to a website like bulletsamples.com and buying a small sample (15 - 20 bullets) of various types and try them in that new right for comparison. Good like and have fun with that new baby.

 

[MrMajestic]

Sierra MKs are relatively short for their length

Laurie, Maybe if said with a Cockney accent this would make sense! ;D

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

 

[Laurie]

short for their weight is of course what I meant, guys

 

[Jager247]

Thanks for the info guys. I can't wait for it to get here. My next match is in July. I'd love to have a good load worked out and beat those guys with there coopers.

 

[45bpcr]

I have one of those rifles and like it alot.
This works well for me.

175 SMK .013 off the lands
Lapua case
43.8 grains Varget
CCI-BR2 primer

45bpcr

 

[Redhighpower]

I agree with 45bpcr, go with the SMK 175's. Use Varget, its not sensitive to temp. about 43 to 44 grains, start low and work up. You will find the sweet spot quickly. Use about .001 neck tension, I would use fed 210m or 210 primers, Winchester brass and go shoot. Larry

 

[Shooter2112]

Jager247,

I have a 12FTR, Have been developing loads for about a year ad a half..
Pre-stock change, the loads I have that performed the best were:
Lapua brass, 46.5gr Varget under a Berger BT 30416 (VLD fullbore), .010 off the lands, BR2's, 40Deg temp, 2950fps -
Lapua brass, 45gr RL15, under a Berger BT 30416 (VLD fullbore), .010 off the lands, BR2's, 40Deg temp, 2870fps
Lapua brass, 44.5gr 8208XBR under a Sierra MatchKing 2156, .010 off the lands, BR2's, 40Deg temp, 2980fps
All three shot at least .350 and at best .200 at 100, and almost .850 at 300 in a sinclair rest and a 5kt quartering wind.
These are AT MAX loads.......for me.
Cheers,

 

[Shooter2112]

Forgot one thing - no necks were harmed in the development of these loads. .335 neck tension - neck sized only.
Cheers. S

 

[Jager247]

Thanks for that info Shooter.

 

[cruiser49]

FWIW, you may want to try the Berger 168 gr Hybrid Target bullets. They have much better BC than the 168 SMK's or the 175s. They reach the 1000 yd range with plenty of velocity. I load mine set back .020 over 43.2 gr RL 15 in Lapua brass with BR2 primers. Berger's product info on their web page shows 12 twist as acceptable. Note: they load longer than the 168 SMK's but in your F-TR this shouldn't be a problem.