New life for a old barrel / making a button rifled barrel better

[FrankG]

OK this started out just as a test to see what would happen. So while waiting for a new barrel to come thru the shop for this left handed Savage 110S build.....I had a couple of old take off Savage varmint barrels.

I took a old Savage 112V J series 223 barrel (made back in the 70's) that was heavily shot and from neglect had pitting in the bore as well. So I wasn't wrecking a collectors item before anyone goes nuts on me.

I took the bore from 22cal and redid it for 6.5mm. Pulled the first bore reamer thru to take it to .228". The pitting was so deep that going +.004" bigger over groove size there was still pitting in the bore of the barrel. Next bore reamer thru was for 6mm (.237") and that cleaned everything up. Eventually getting it ready for a .2560" finish size.

Joe in the shop rifled the barrel with 5R and 1-8 twist. I then rechambered it from 223 Rem. to 6.5CM and cut and crowned the barrel with a 11 degree target and finished it at 23" down from the original 26" finish. The run out on the finish chamber was a .0005" or less. It couldn't have gone better.

First time out with box Hornady 140ELDM's ammo and getting a zero on the scope box ammo was coming in a tick over .5" groups at 117 yards. 5 shot groups. Scope on the gun initially is a Vortex Viper HS 4-16x. Only put 16 rounds on the barrel.

I then reloaded the fired cases with Hornady 135 ATIPs. I went out and rezeroed the gun because I had it all apart and shot 4 rounds of the box Hornady ammo and then went shooting the 135 ATIPs. Temp was 32 degrees. The ATIPs where shooting .23moa to .32moa groups from 117 to 430 yards. I was only doing 3 shot groups as I didn't want to get the barrel to warm as I was trying to keep the heat/mirage from coming off the barrel and distorting the image thru the scope.

Next up is some more shooting with the installed NF 8-32x scope. I do want to take the gun apart again as we are going to double pin the recoil lug at 3 and 9 o'clock positions. The receiver face was trued as it was out .006" and I lapped the lugs on the bolt. No other receiver work has been done to it or truing of the bolt face.

I will say that old cm Savage barrel steel cut nice and clean. Reaming, chambering rifling etc...

Don't ask if I will rebore/rerifle your old barrels. Too much that can go wrong with the old barrel and not to mention scrapping tooling on our end that can run in the thousands of dollars. Again it was a test more than anything else to see what would happen. I'll keep playing with it till the new barrel is done. Enjoy the pic's.

Later, Frank

 

[FrankG]

Here's the real funny part.....

The stock isn't even bedded yet!

 

[jamesh]

The lack of bedding aside is there some reason you didn't expect it to shoot well?
I'm just curious.

 

[akajun]

I have a few guns that are re bores, one for sure from JES, others are unknown. They all seem to shoot well. Ive wondered if a re bore of an old shot out barrel may actually shoot better than a new barrel as the years of shooting/use may have stress relieved it more?

 

[338 Mollett]

Nice story.Wish I had all that equipment.

 

[FrankG]

The lack of bedding aside is there some reason you didn't expect it to shoot well?
I'm just curious.

I'd figured it would shoot. It all turned out like it was suppose to. There is always that unknown? How will the fouling be? Any hard spots in the material? The barrel could've went sour during rifling.

So I figured it would shoot! Just didn't figure the groups would be that small and not even bedded to boot!

If I could put enough rounds on it in X amount of time it would be interesting to see how it will stand up.

 

[jamesh]

I'm curious if you lapped the barrel since I didn't see any mention of it?
I find your test here very interesting. I would think that since Savage straightens their barrels and after running 3 reamers through, the bore would be very straight.

 

[STOMP442]

What stock is that and where can I get one? I like it.

 

[FrankG]

I'm curious if you lapped the barrel since I didn't see any mention of it?
I find your test here very interesting. I would think that since Savage straightens their barrels and after running 3 reamers through, the bore would be very straight.

The barrel actually had a slight bow to it. It wasn't horrible but it was there. What was interesting it was towards the muzzle end. When I cut the 3" off and shortened it to 23" finish I actually ended up cutting the bowed section off.

Yes we did all the normal barrel making that we normally do to this one. So it got prelapped after reaming, then rifled and then finished lapped like we always do. Then I chambered it and cut and crowned it to length.

 

[FrankG]

What stock is that and where can I get one? I like it.

Me being left handed....I found that stock NOS on Ebay. Picked it up for $75. Couldn't beat it.

I've never seen a factory 110S (silhouette rifle) in left hand from Savage. Let alone a factory stock either way. The right handed guns are even hard to find as they only made them for like a couple of years. I think the first year was 1980 and only to 1984. Calibers where only 7mm-08 and 308win.

The silhouette stocks have that much higher comb and that stippled finish on the grip area and bottom side of the stock. They made a 110v varmint rifle that has that stippled finish but not the high comb. I had a old left handed action so presto.....build a rifle. The rerifling of the old barrel just popped into my head to try and see what would happen and how it would turn out.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The barrel actually had a slight bow to it. It wasn't horrible but it was there. What was interesting it was towards the muzzle end. When I cut the 3" off and shortened it to 23" finish I actually ended up cutting the bowed section off.

Yes we did all the normal barrel making that we normally do to this one. So it got prelapped after reaming, then rifled and then finished lapped like we always do. Then I chambered it and cut and crowned it to length.

do you lap after profiling or before?

 

[FrankG]

do you lap after profiling or before?

In post #9 I did say we prelapped the bore after reaming, then it got rifled and then it got finished lapped. Just like we normally do but I’ll go thru how the process normally is done start to finish on a normal barrel we make.

The material is sawed to the length we need for orders etc...the bars are normally 12 feet to 16 feet long from the mill. The blank then gets gun drilled (the initial hole down the blank of the barrel)(sometimes it’s rough turned sometimes it’s not. Depends on the contour). Then it gets finished turned, then it gets bore reamed, prelapped, rifled, finished lapped and a final polish job on the od of the blank and all the information stamped on the breech face of then shipped to the customer. That’s the short version.

Thru out the whole process the barrel is constantly getting visually and optically inspected as well as getting gauged thru out the process. Not just after the barrel is finished.

If the barrel needs extra work like fluting, chamber work etc...that all comes later after the barrel is finished.

So in this case the barrel was already contoured and rifled as the old Savage take off barrel. So other then getting it up to bore size to change it to 6.5mm I didn’t have to contour it or even thread it for that matter. The amount of time for me to get it up to bore size to get it ready for rifling actually took me longer than normal. So no time savings anywhere as far as that goes. I also had to set up the stops on the machines and check everything for reaming and prelapping and rifling etc...because the barrel had a chamber in it. I didn’t want to wreck any tooling so it was patience and watching the set ups more closely.

Any other questions let me know.

Later, Frank

 

[FrankG]

I did install a aftermarket os recoil lug as well. It’s SS and you can see it in the pictures. Gonna take the gun a part and double pin the recoil lug to the action before we bed the stock.

 

[FrankG]

What stock is that and where can I get one? I like it.

I should have pointed this out as well. With that really high comb on the stock from a hunting rifle stand point in my opinion is perfect. I can shoulder the rifle and don’t have to move my head up to get a full view thru the scope vs some of the regular hunting type stock.

 

[Brians356]

I'm not a 'smith or machinist. You mentioned bow in the barrel. It occurred to me: When boring or turning a barrel, any lathe or boring machine I've seen works with the piece oriented horizontally. How do you keep a barrel (especially an extra long or thin one) from sagging in the middle, however slightly, when it is chucked or supported at the ends?
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[mikeinct]

Frank G I wish you had done my 25 caliber re-bore job...sigh.. mike in ct

 

[FrankG]

I'm not a 'smith or machinist. You mentioned bow in the barrel. It occurred to me: When boring or turning a barrel, any lathe or boring machine I've seen works with the piece oriented horizontally. How do you keep a barrel (especially an extra long or thin one) from sagging in the middle, however slightly, when it is chucked or supported at the ends?
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When contouring the barrel we turn between centers on a cnc lathe. There is a follow steady rest mounted on the lathe as well. Shortly after the tool starts cutting the rollers on the steady rest automatically will close onto the barrel blank and supports it the whole time while turning.

 

[Brians356]

When contouring the barrel we turn between centers on a cnc lathe. There is a follow steady rest mounted on the lathe as well. Shortly after the tool starts cutting the rollers on the steady rest automatically will close onto the barrel blank and supports it the whole time while turning.

Thanks. Is the steady rest stationary or does it traverse the piece along with the cutting head? I'm sure I can find a photo or diagram somewhere. (Hint, hint. )

Consider the analogous problems associated with precision turning and trepanning (hollowing) of the gigantic forged propulsion driveshafts in aircraft carriers. (The long trepanning lathe bed in photo on the right. The cutting head advances 45 in/hr.)


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[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks. Is the steady rest stationary or does it traverse the piece along with the cutting head? I'm sure I can find a photo or diagram somewhere. (Hint, hint. )

Consider the analogous problems associated with precision turning and trepanning (hollowing) of the gigantic forged propulsion driveshafts in aircraft carriers.
View attachment 1150624

A steady rest is stationary. A follow rest moves with the tool. Most barrelmakes use a hydraulic follow rest for contouring

 

[FrankG]

I should've clarified that.....my post says a follow steady rest. I was still waking up!

The rest follows the tool and is mounted to the carriage of the lathe.

Not hydraulic....air operated.