am shooting bolt action .308...recently purchased new Lapua brass and want to load for the 1st time. I'm looking to only neck size. Cases as they are from factory chamber fine. I would like to size so there is .001 to .0015 neck tension. The cases out of the box are .003+ neck tension. How do I expand the necks far enough so I can use the collet die to get back down to that .001 to .0015 number?
New Lapua brass...1st loading?
- Thread starter jsteiger
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You can simply run a mandrel down the necks to reduce neck tension -- you may have to experiment with a couple different diameters, as you will get some springback after expansion.
If you are using a Lee collet die I would be surprised if you could get back down to .0015 neck-tension consistently -- but maybe you'll get lucky. The last two Lee collet dies I used scraped the necks on the outside and would not perform consistently from case to case. On the other hand you could get the results you want with a Redding or Forster neck-bushing die.
However, with the correct mandrel, you may be able to get to the desired neck tension in one pass with the mandrel (including springback).
If you are using a Lee collet die I would be surprised if you could get back down to .0015 neck-tension consistently -- but maybe you'll get lucky. The last two Lee collet dies I used scraped the necks on the outside and would not perform consistently from case to case. On the other hand you could get the results you want with a Redding or Forster neck-bushing die.
However, with the correct mandrel, you may be able to get to the desired neck tension in one pass with the mandrel (including springback).
Hi jsteiger,
You have new brass. You cannot evaluate the chambering if it has not been fired in your chamber. Do a full-length resizing with the dies you have. Measure the brass length to ensure that you have brass that is under max. length. Load it with a mid-range load. Firing it will fireform it to your chamber. This will give you a gauge to adjust your dies for neck-sizing. Clean your fired brass. Re-size your brass to the same measurements of the brass fired from your chamber. Re-do the brass overall length sizing to ensure uniformity. Clean out the primer flash hole. Clean your brass one more time. Weigh your prepped cases. Doing this will give you separate groups of brass that you can use for your work-up loads. Your work-up loads will depend on the components you use. However, powder variations of 0.3 grains will help you in identifying the best loads for your rifle. A more fine variation will just get you to burn more powder. A coarser variation might get you past the best load combination without letting you know. What is very important is the notes you should be keeping when you do your work-up loads. Just remember, use the sources of information that are available to you, aka your fellow shooters. Your project is not one that is solved quickly. Take your time and document everything. The time you spend doing this will save you time in the end.
PS: My .308 loves Varget.
Cheers,
Phil aka tazzman
You have new brass. You cannot evaluate the chambering if it has not been fired in your chamber. Do a full-length resizing with the dies you have. Measure the brass length to ensure that you have brass that is under max. length. Load it with a mid-range load. Firing it will fireform it to your chamber. This will give you a gauge to adjust your dies for neck-sizing. Clean your fired brass. Re-size your brass to the same measurements of the brass fired from your chamber. Re-do the brass overall length sizing to ensure uniformity. Clean out the primer flash hole. Clean your brass one more time. Weigh your prepped cases. Doing this will give you separate groups of brass that you can use for your work-up loads. Your work-up loads will depend on the components you use. However, powder variations of 0.3 grains will help you in identifying the best loads for your rifle. A more fine variation will just get you to burn more powder. A coarser variation might get you past the best load combination without letting you know. What is very important is the notes you should be keeping when you do your work-up loads. Just remember, use the sources of information that are available to you, aka your fellow shooters. Your project is not one that is solved quickly. Take your time and document everything. The time you spend doing this will save you time in the end.
PS: My .308 loves Varget.
Cheers,
Phil aka tazzman
I'm pretty new to the reloading process. I've tried several dies and am pretty happy so far with the Lee collet die. My groups have shrunk considerably since using them...and think that neck tension on lower quality brass has been pretty consistent...thought that if I tried the lapua brass (more consistent neck thickness) my results would be even more uniform neck tension?
I'm not sure what you mean by saying I can't evaluate the chambering yet...If I seat a bullet in an empty case and can chamber it with no resistance why would I want to full length resize the cases? They are already "small enough" to fit my chamber...won't full length resizing only make them smaller (fit more loosely inside the chamber)?
Current case length out of the box is consistenly 2.008
Current case length out of the box is consistenly 2.008
You should always FL size new brass! In my experience lapua brass has had to much neck tension and when I fire formed I lost 20% of the primer pockets. (loosened up) Now I fl size all my new brass and have not had the problem again.
Just my 2 cent others may have different experiences
Shaun White
Just my 2 cent others may have different experiences
Shaun White
Good morning jsteiger,
Shaun is correct about FL resizing new brass. It ensures that all brass has been checked for concentricity and that case mouths are round, meaning repaired from manufacturing damage. After initial fireforming this new brass(meaning that this brass is formed to your chamber), then you can trim them to your length(if required) and clean out the primer hole. Thes last two steps are required if you want to compare them and sort them out by weight. This sorting gives you the chance, when trying to find out which load is good for your rifle, to have the same case volume and the same case elasticity. For example, if you reload two cases that have differing case volume, the case with the lower case volume will give you higher chamber pressure. Given that everything else is equal, less case volume means more brass and less case elasticity.
This website has a lot of information for reloaders, and the level of expertise goes from beginner to 'grand master'. Do like I do. Read up!! I know that I do. I've learned lots since joining, but still need to learn more.
Cheers,
Phil aka tazzman
Shaun is correct about FL resizing new brass. It ensures that all brass has been checked for concentricity and that case mouths are round, meaning repaired from manufacturing damage. After initial fireforming this new brass(meaning that this brass is formed to your chamber), then you can trim them to your length(if required) and clean out the primer hole. Thes last two steps are required if you want to compare them and sort them out by weight. This sorting gives you the chance, when trying to find out which load is good for your rifle, to have the same case volume and the same case elasticity. For example, if you reload two cases that have differing case volume, the case with the lower case volume will give you higher chamber pressure. Given that everything else is equal, less case volume means more brass and less case elasticity.
This website has a lot of information for reloaders, and the level of expertise goes from beginner to 'grand master'. Do like I do. Read up!! I know that I do. I've learned lots since joining, but still need to learn more.
Cheers,
Phil aka tazzman
What I do with new Lapua .308 is the following:
I run the new brass up in a Sinclair expander die used for neck turning with a .30 cal. expander installed. This opens up the necks and irons out any dings or dents in the neck. I use imperial dry neck lube
Then just to make sure the body is ok I run them through a Redding body die. I use Imperial die wax for lube. You could probably skip this step since I've never found a problem.
I then run the brass through a Redding Competition bushing neck sizer with a .335 or .336 bushing
I then chamfer and deburr the cases using a Lyman 22 degree chamfering tool and a Forester de-burring tool
Lapua uses drilled flash holes as opposed to punched so I leave the flash holes and primer pockets alone. My opinion is you can do more harm than good to Lapua brass. The chronograph can bear this out.
Then I tumble them in a plain corn cob media to clean out any shavings from the chamfering and de-burring process.
The first firing I use a full competition load They group nearly as good as once fired brass.
After the first firing from there on out I use the Redding body die set to bump the shoulder between .001-.002 then follow up with the Redding neck die with appropriate bushing. You'll never notice the difference from neck sizing only and the bump will insure easy chambering as your firing progresses.
*A word about the Redding body die. I have found it will only size the body a slight bit so if you are using brass fired in more than one rifle it won't FL size the cases enough even with the die cammed over the shell holder. If you need true FL sizing I'd use a RCBS FL sizer since they really work the brass*
Danny
I run the new brass up in a Sinclair expander die used for neck turning with a .30 cal. expander installed. This opens up the necks and irons out any dings or dents in the neck. I use imperial dry neck lube
Then just to make sure the body is ok I run them through a Redding body die. I use Imperial die wax for lube. You could probably skip this step since I've never found a problem.
I then run the brass through a Redding Competition bushing neck sizer with a .335 or .336 bushing
I then chamfer and deburr the cases using a Lyman 22 degree chamfering tool and a Forester de-burring tool
Lapua uses drilled flash holes as opposed to punched so I leave the flash holes and primer pockets alone. My opinion is you can do more harm than good to Lapua brass. The chronograph can bear this out.
Then I tumble them in a plain corn cob media to clean out any shavings from the chamfering and de-burring process.
The first firing I use a full competition load They group nearly as good as once fired brass.
After the first firing from there on out I use the Redding body die set to bump the shoulder between .001-.002 then follow up with the Redding neck die with appropriate bushing. You'll never notice the difference from neck sizing only and the bump will insure easy chambering as your firing progresses.
*A word about the Redding body die. I have found it will only size the body a slight bit so if you are using brass fired in more than one rifle it won't FL size the cases enough even with the die cammed over the shell holder. If you need true FL sizing I'd use a RCBS FL sizer since they really work the brass*
Danny
I quess I'm different. I never FL size before fire forming especially Lapua. Its quality is darn good right out of the box. Last thing I want to do is undersize it more than needed and compound the stretch required to form it to my chamber.
Neck tension is usually tight. I'll lube the inside neck with Imperial dry graphite. Run an expander ball down through the neck and back up again without allowing the die/bushing to size the neck.
The expander irons out any dents in the neck (rare with Lapua) and the graphite eases seating pressures and gets it closer to what it will eventually be later on.
Works for me but I usually only need to form 100-150 pcs of brass for a new barrel. While fireforming I do not expect top accuracy but theres still plenty to be learned from the results.
Neck tension is usually tight. I'll lube the inside neck with Imperial dry graphite. Run an expander ball down through the neck and back up again without allowing the die/bushing to size the neck.
The expander irons out any dents in the neck (rare with Lapua) and the graphite eases seating pressures and gets it closer to what it will eventually be later on.
Works for me but I usually only need to form 100-150 pcs of brass for a new barrel. While fireforming I do not expect top accuracy but theres still plenty to be learned from the results.
RAM
I have just started the procedure of FL sizing my new brass after I had problems with the primer pockets in my expensive lapua brass. I'm sure you could just neck size and it would have had the same affect as far as reducing the neck tension. When I had these problems I went to the guys at my local range that have been competeing and reloading for 30+ years and I was informed to make a habit of always FL sizing new brass. I worked for me mabey you have a different way that I would be more than happy to hear as I have only been reloading for mabey 2 years and consider myself a rookie always wanting to learn. I also will state I was fireforming 243 ackley from 243 lapua when this happend and I know I was not using too hot of a load but I never had the problem again after FL sizing new brass and then fireforming.
Shaun White
I have just started the procedure of FL sizing my new brass after I had problems with the primer pockets in my expensive lapua brass. I'm sure you could just neck size and it would have had the same affect as far as reducing the neck tension. When I had these problems I went to the guys at my local range that have been competeing and reloading for 30+ years and I was informed to make a habit of always FL sizing new brass. I worked for me mabey you have a different way that I would be more than happy to hear as I have only been reloading for mabey 2 years and consider myself a rookie always wanting to learn. I also will state I was fireforming 243 ackley from 243 lapua when this happend and I know I was not using too hot of a load but I never had the problem again after FL sizing new brass and then fireforming.
Shaun White
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