New Lapua 6br brass so tight bullet won't seat even after expander

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, just pulled the expander stem from the 243 die and the ball measured .241 as compared to the .225 ball measured from the 6 Dasher Redding die. But when I measured the length of the taper of the stem to the largest point (.241) it exceeded the length of the entire 6mm case by nearly .025. In short, when I put the 243 stem (.241 ball) in the 6br case it came up short of going into the neck as it bottomed out a quarter inch short of entry to the neck.

It was a hell-of-a thought though! Thanks!

It should look like this right? Change the silver part and keep the rod the same

 

[jjhall91]

If his die is necking down that far for a .224 button to work,and now uses a .243 to neck up that sure seems like over working the brass for no reason.

Bigstick, this is a very good learning experience for me. When I run the brass through the Redding 6 dasher die it opens it to .225. It will spring back a thousands or two say to .223. If I could have run it through the 243 expander ball it would have opened it to approximately .239 after spring-back. Are you saying the expansion of approximately .016 and the return to .268 after loading would excessively overwork the brass? I could understand that.

 

[jjhall91]

View attachment 1131657

It should look like this right? Change the silver part and keep the rod the same

Unfortunately, the stem I have does not have threads it is simply one piece with no way of removing the ball/expander. The ball/expander/stem are one piece.

If I'm doing a poor job explaining I could send a photo?

 

[bigstick6017555]

My dies work the neck .004

 

[jjhall91]

I had the same problem last night for a new box of 6BR Lapua brass.

RussellJ, how frustrating is that!? The good news is: the guys on this website not only figured it out, but offered the solution for not only this issue, but for standardizing future brass neck ID which can only help in the exacting process.

An expander die/mandrel is cheap at the price. I shoot various calibers using Lapua brass and while I'll start with the 6 Dasher, I'll be getting dies/mandrels for the other calibers as well.

 

[bigstick6017555]

factory virgin Lapua 6mm br brass that i have ever used measure .240 in side neck. you need to measure a new case from that box and start from there

 

[Ccrider]

How is a 6 Dasher die only opening to .225? If it is, there is problem with that die.

 

[Sheldon N]

Bigstick, this is a very good learning experience for me. When I run the brass through the Redding 6 dasher die it opens it to .225. It will spring back a thousands or two say to .223. If I could have run it through the 243 expander ball it would have opened it to approximately .239 after spring-back. Are you saying the expansion of approximately .016 and the return to .268 after loading would excessively overwork the brass? I could understand that.

I'm having a very hard time following your process here. You keep interjecting numbers that align with a 22 caliber projectile, not a 6mm projectile. Something is VERY wrong with your process if you are getting any measurements in the .223 to .225 range.

Let's simplify things and only measure the outside diameter of your case neck. Can you please provide these numbers?

1) Outside diameter of the 6BR brass at the neck, before you touch it or do anything.
2) Outside diameter of the case neck on one of loaded cases with a 105 hybrid in it.
3) Outside diameter of the case neck on one of the prepped cases after you have done whatever prep it is you are doing to it.

My expectation is that #1 should be around .265 or .266, that #2 is probably around .268. What I want to know is what #3 is in comparison.

 

[jjhall91]

My dies work the neck .004

Wow! After that comparison I can see where .016 would be considered overworking the brass. I would have done it though, just until the correct die/mandrel got here so I could've shot today.

I use a Redding Type (S) Bushing Die for my Dasher. After firing, the diameter of a case neck measures .270/.271 (my reamer print neck size reads .2705). When I use the .265 bushing, a loaded case measures .268 at the neck. All this beginning with a new case neck diameter of .266/.267.

Considering the above, and if I'm thinking right, I'm working the case neck about .005. Does that sound right? I tried the .266 bushing, but I didn't feel I got enough neck tension.

What die are you using?

 

[Sheldon N]

I use a Redding Type (S) Bushing Die for my Dasher. After firing, the diameter of a case neck measures .270/.271 (my reamer print neck size reads .2705). When I use the .265 bushing, a loaded case measures .268 at the neck. All this beginning with a new case neck diameter of .266/.267.

Where does the .224 number fit into all of this?

What is the measurement of #3... a case you have prepped and processed BEFORE you put a bullet in it?

 

[KMart]

Doesn't the Type S die come with an expander and a dummy that is a smaller diameter for keeping the decapping pin in place? It is not impossible that Redding sent you a 22 cal expander. The 2 parts look similar and screws onto the end of the decapping assembly

 

[bigstick6017555]

how about a wrong bushing taking it down to .224 for the expander to work also

 

[spclark]

Where does the .224 number fit into all of this?

S’what I been trying to wrap my head around too.

Nothing having to do with sizing a 6mm case neck ID ought to be measuring anything close to - let alone less than - 0.238”.

 

[jjhall91]

I'm having a very hard time following your process here. You keep interjecting numbers that align with a 22 caliber projectile, not a 6mm projectile. Something is VERY wrong with your process if you are getting any measurements in the .223 to .225 range.

Let's simplify things and only measure the outside diameter of your case neck. Can you please provide these numbers?

1) Outside diameter of the 6BR brass at the neck, before you touch it or do anything.
2) Outside diameter of the case neck on one of loaded cases with a 105 hybrid in it.
3) Outside diameter of the case neck on one of the prepped cases after you have done whatever prep it is you are doing to it.

My expectation is that #1 should be around .265 or .266, that #2 is probably around .268. What I want to know is what #3 is in comparison.

MY BAD! I made 2 mistakes. The first being not making it clear I was referring to measuring the expander ball in the 243 die and the original ball in the Redding die. The second mistake was when measuring the Redding expander in the wrong spot (to low). I just remeasured at the larger spot and got .241 with a normal spring of making a possible .239 much the same as the 243 expander reading of .241 and .239 after spring back.

When I mentioned those numbers I was letting Dusty know the dimension of the expander ball 243 vs the expander ball in the Redding die (before I removed it in favor of the smaller black fitting that holds the pin to remove the primer). Again I mis-measured the Redding expander it reads .241.

I'll try to include pictures.

In answer to your questions:
1) .266/.267
2) .268 (loaded with Berger 105 VLDs)
3) .265 (Obviously when I use that bushing. I've tried .266 but felt it to light for neck tension.)
My fired casings measure .270/271.

Do these numbers seem in line.

I apologize for my error and waste of your time. As you see, I've included a picture of the Redding expander. I couldn't get the picture of the 243k, but it read .241 as well.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[6MMsteve]

you can make a crude nk thickness gauge by using a mandrel and depth gauge on the caliper.. clamp the mandrel in a vice or something slide the case over the mandrel and use the depth gauge on the caliper..this will give a crude reading...but if your brass is thick you will know

 

[jjhall91]

how about a wrong bushing taking it down to .224 for the expander to work also

I've really confused the issue. Bigstick, if you read my original post to Dusty you'll see the .241 and .225 (which I measured wrong should have been .241) numbers come from measuring the expander mandre/ball in both the Redding and 243 dies.

I've since explained in later posts with a picture. If you read my original post to Dusty you'll see I was referring to the size of the expanders.

 

[jjhall91]

you can make a crude nk thickness gauge by using a mandrel and depth gauge on the caliper.. clamp the mandrel in a vice or something slide the case over the mandrel and use the depth gauge on the caliper..this will give a crude reading...but if your brass is thick you will know

Interesting! I'll give this a try. Thanks.

 

[jjhall91]

how about a wrong bushing taking it down to .224 for the expander to work also

Anything is possible with me. However, those numbers (one being incorrect) were to reflect the size of the expander mandrels. They have zero to do with the casings, themselves.

Please note the posts previously sent which explains it in detail. If you read my original post to Dusty you'll see I was referring to measuring the respective expander mandrels.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[rwj]

Interesting! I'll give this a try. Thanks.

You can measure case neck ID using the ID jaws on your Mitutoyo caliper. Subtract this value from the case neck OD value then divide by 2 for wall thickness...

 

[urbanrifleman]

A 243 expander is not big enough for Lapua virgin brass in my experience.