New kreiger .223 help!

[Lazer]

Hey guys, hoping for some help. I have a new remington action, kreiger 8 twist chambered in regular 223 min spec. I'm in the low .500s high .400s w six, five shot groups for a total of 30 rounds. I'm using 69 smks , varget, lapua brass, and fed gm primers at 100yds. I know this gun will shoot way better than this! When it was a factory sps tactical w a manners stock ( bedded) I averaged .495 for 30 rounds. I have looked all over the net can anyone suggest a load or lead me in a better direction? Looking to get into the 3's for 30 rounds, any help will be appreiciated!
Thanks lazer

 

[Jeff A]

Try more than one bullet and one powder. My Shilen barreled Savage did better with Berger 73's and Sierra 77's for example. The 69's were lack luster. H4895 worked well for me. YRMV!

 

[amlevin]

A simple answer ------

"Ladder Test"

New barrel, all new game.

 

[Lazer]

Amlevin, will a ladder test w the 69 guarantee me the beloved .300s I wish for or is there a chance those are not the best bullet/ weight for my barrel?

 

[eric32]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3814361.0

check this out

 

[rcw3]

SMK's are o.k. but if you are looking to tweak your groups down I personally run Bergers. I also think 8208XBR is a better powder for delivering tight little groups in many cases over Varget. Lapua brass is decent but it has thick neck metal and to get it working real well for little groups, I have found one has to be real careful to have a consistent lighter neck tension (I actually prefer some domestic brass for for that application). It's hard to know what your chamber is. If it's a SAAMI 223 Rem, then you have a very short throat and a steeper throat angle and you would probably do better with shorter bullets in the 52-73 gr range.

I have a 1:8" kreiger with a shorter throated chamber and with culled and selected LC brass, 22 gr of 8208XBR and the Berger 73's and BR-4's it will regularly do 10 shot groups in the low 3's (i.e. one ragged little hole). I imagine I could pump up the velocity on that some but it's just so accurate, I am happy to leave it as is and have fun shooting it.

 

[Lazer]

Bike effects, did you run several 5 shot groups w those heavy bullets and the 4895 ? Because I was considering a. 60 flat base for my next move , again thanks for all the help so far!

 

[Lazer]

Thanks rcw, this is what I'm looking for, yes mine is min sammi spec that's why I wanted to try a lighter flat base.

 

[boltman223]

I second doing a ladder test. Over the last two summer's I have been shooting a 223 in f-class and have found .2 and even .1 of a grain can make a difference in the 223.

After finding a good load, I loaded up 6 cases each, .4 and .2 under that load, my "good" load and the same .2 and .4 over it and then shot them at 600 yds. After measuring the vertical of each I took the one with the smallest vertical (which ended up being .2 grains under my original " good"load) and shot that load at 100 yds. with my original seating the groups were a little bigger but, I adjusted seating depth the groups tightened up even smaller. My average 5 shot group size went from the high .3's to the low .2's. I've only done a couple ten shot groups at 100 yds and they were in the low .4's but, I have done numerous 10 shot groups at 300 yds and it holds 1.04 inches. Hopefully this will help.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/long-range-load-development/

 

[amlevin]

Amlevin, will a ladder test w the 69 guarantee me the beloved .300s I wish for or is there a chance those are not the best bullet/ weight for my barrel?

You will never find out until you try. First the ladder test to find the accuracy nodes. Work around those nodes by adjusting powder then seating depths.

There are no guarantees or shortcuts.

 

[wwbrown]

Amlevin, will a ladder test w the 69 guarantee me the beloved .300s I wish for or is there a chance those are not the best bullet/ weight for my barrel?

There are no guarantees!

 

[243winxb]

The Nosler was very accurate, using a starting load and working up. The Hornady 68 gr liked IMR3031. Not great, but for a cheap rifle, its ok. I would try some Berger Bullet$. They do well in my 243win. Have not tried any in this 223.

 

['Freak]

In chronological order, what has transpired leading up to your present and still disappointing combination? Could be you jumped right over a charge weight goodie zone by stepping up in too large increments, or from a plain ol’ lack of some sort of methodology.

 

[Lazer]

Here's where I'm at: I put 500 plus rounds down the tube of a sps tactical whitch from the beginning was my doner action for my kreiger super build . I decided to see how far I could go with it for a learning experience and see where it compared to the krieger. My final 6x5 for 30 averaged .495, I tried a lot of combinations that 9 twist hated the 69, but loved the 52smk. I thought this krieger was gonna be easy to beat that factory barrel, I thought 8 twist will do better w 69smk. I have ran the whole gammet of seat depths and load combos w lapua brass fed gm primers and varget. Did it beat the factory on a 6x5 ? Yes but barley. I know I need to change things because a match barrel should be a lot better than a factory, and my factory barrel had a crooked chamber! I'm not looking for a guarentee in this game I know there isn't one. Just saying a ladder test won't get me to the 300s if the bullet is not right for the barrel and my specific goal. I was just looking for a start from someone that may have a barrel like mine and has had better luck w a certain bullet and powder, I know there will be plenty of tweeking from there.
Thanks lazer I can also post picks if needed

 

[13red56]

Here's where I'm at: I put 500 plus rounds down the tube of a sps tactical whitch from the beginning was my doner action for my kreiger super build . I decided to see how far I could go with it for a learning experience and see where it compared to the krieger. My final 6x5 for 30 averaged .495, I tried a lot of combinations that 9 twist hated the 69, but loved the 52smk. I thought this krieger was gonna be easy to beat that factory barrel, I thought 8 twist will do better w 69smk. I have ran the whole gammet of seat depths and load combos w lapua brass fed gm primers and varget. Did it beat the factory on a 6x5 ? Yes but barley. I know I need to change things because a match barrel should be a lot better than a factory, and my factory barrel had a crooked chamber! I'm not looking for a guarentee in this game I know there isn't one. Just saying a ladder test won't get me to the 300s if the bullet is not right for the barrel and my specific goal. I was just looking for a start from someone that may have a barrel like mine and has had better luck w a certain bullet and powder, I know there will be plenty of tweeking from there.
Thanks lazer I can also post picks if needed

I agree with your assessment that some barrels just don't like some bullets and the same goes for powder. If you haven't tried other powders you may go that avenue. I have a 223 AI which is some what hard to compare to your regular 223 but my point is you just may not have the right combo yet. Yes a Kreiger is suppose to be better than factory and yes I feel the load process should be easier. With that said not all aftermarket barrels are shooter and not all of them show their potential early. Some take more of a break in than others. I'm shooting the 69SMK in the AI with a 9 twist and luckily it's was one of those that is easy to load for and has a big window in the powder charge. Others are far more knowledgeable than I am but I'd say give 8208,RL15,and Ramshot Tac a try. I would try the Tac first simple b/c of the ball/spherical type powder doesn't seem to fill the case as fast and you won't have as compressed a load when u get near the max. At least that is my experience with it. Stick powders will definantly shoot as I use them as well but if I'm compressing the sick powders such as Varget,RL15,and 8208 I then try to find a ball powder in close to the same burn rate as those and test to see what happens.

 

[Snuggie]

Try the 8208XBR and N-140. The first is a stick powder, the N-140 is not. I have an almost stock VTR that shoots 5 in a hole with the 69SMK's and N-140. My other is a Custom SPR .223 with a Bartlein in 7.7 tw. It shoots the 80SMK's and 8208XBR 5 shots one hole at 100. Good luck! 8)

 

[searcher]

If available to you, try laddering your 69 SMK's with Varget and 8208 XBR. I didn't see what discipline you were shooting. If it is just to derive as much accuracy at "shorter" (say 100 to 300 yds) ranges - I'd ladder the 52's (Bergers are my favorite)with Reloader 7, 8208 XBR, Varget and W748. If the SMK's don't shoot with one of these, I'd switch bullets. My .223's (even A/R's) will shoot under .350" 5-shots groups @100 with 50 grain Hornady V=max bullets. Doing .005" off the lands while laddering has worked well for me. They are mostly Krieger barrels. Range from 1-7 to 1-9 twist. I can say that NONE of my .223.'s favor 69 SMKs and a few of them shoot them terribly. Don't know why - as SMKs shoot great in other caliber rifles. Every gun is different. I will say that if your barrel doesn't shoot after laddering as per mine and others' suggested - I'd then switch out your bullet. Just don't give up on that barrel. I'm sure you will find it does shoot something VERRRRY well.

 

[jlow]

Searcher (or for that matter anybody else)– on a related note, any experience with Krieger barrels (223 chambered, 1-7.7 twist) in terms of how they shoot 77 gr SMK/Noslers?

 

[Lazer]

Thanks searcher, this is the kinda info I'm lookin for. So u would say that not only am I heavy but the 69smk is prob not gonna work to good in my 8 twist kreiger?
Also are u shooting under .350 w those 50 vmax, consistently like several 5 shot groups in a row? I'm I the low 400s for 30 shots in a row I thought my rifle should be doing better than that, that's why I'm here and why I ask?

 

[Kodiak99317]

Here's Berger bullets ref chart... 1:8 calls for 75 to 82g bullets, I'd say try heavier bullets. You never said what game your shooting, but LR would also benefit from the heavier bullets. If it is short range, under 300m, then I find FB usually make smaller groups and BIB or someone must make heavier ones around the 80g mark. VLD bullets don't fall asleep till past 200 yds IMO. Maybe a different bullet and powder....

22 CAL

Part#, Qty Pack Prt#, Description, Bullet dia., OAL, Boat Tail, Nose Length, Base to Ogive, Sectional Density, G1 BC, G7 BC, Recommended twist 22408, 22708, 22 Cal 52 gr Match FB Target, 0.224, 0.719, FB, 0.508, 0.211, 0.211, 0.148, 0.242, NA, 1:14" or faster 22410, NA, 22 Cal 55 gr Match FB Target, 0.224, 0.750, FB, 0.526, 0.224, 0.224, 0.157, 0.262, NA, 1:14" or faster 22418, 22718, 22 Cal 70 gr Match VLD Target, 0.224, 0.976, 0.170, 0.471, 0.505, 0.335, 0.199, 0.371, 0.190, 1:9" or faster 22420, 22720, 22 Cal 73 gr Match BT Target, 0.224, 0.970, 0.120, 0.527, 0.443, 0.323, 0.208, 0.343, 0.176, 1:9" or faster 22421, NA, 22 Cal 75 gr Match VLD Target, 0.224, 1.063, 0.170, 0.570, 0.493, 0.323, 0.214, 0.423, 0.217, 1:8" or faster 22422, 22722, 22 Cal 80 gr Match VLD Target, 0.224, 1.105, 0.180, 0.571, 0.534, 0.354, 0.228, 0.445, 0.228, 1:8" or faster 22427, 22727, 22 Cal 80.5 gr Match FULLBORE Target, 0.224, 1.083, 0.180, 0.594, 0.489, 0.309, 0.229, 0.436, 0.223, 1:8" or faster 22424, NA, 22 Cal 82 gr Match Long Range BT Target, 0.224, 1.115, 0.170, 0.568, 0.547, 0.377, 0.233, 0.444, 0.227, 1:8" or faster 22423, NA, 22 Cal 90 gr Match VLD Target, 0.224, 1.263, 0.170, 0.694, 0.569, 0.399, 0.256, 0.551, 0.281, 1:7" or faster