New FTR shooter scope/ ring ?

[308 shooter]

Guy's I new to shooting FTR 1000 yard , MY ? is do some of the shooter's with 308's use different size scope rings ( high in the rear and mediums in the front to assist with gaining MOA's in there scope ) similar to shimming .

I have a 20 MOA base and high rings on now, but find my scope is maxed out at 39 or 40 MOA and that 's what my 190 load is calling for in JBM Calc. , I ve read where you get the best accuracy/ consistency in the middle of the scope's range and I was wondering if this is something I should look at doing ? I probably have enough room on the scope barrel gap to fit mediums ring , ? how much vertical do you think I would gain just doing this ?

 

[Papa Charlie]

To my knowledge you cannot mix rings, it will cause excessive binding on the tube. You can however, buy rails with 20 or more MOA built into the rail and also rings with MOA built in as well. There is also rails that have micro adjustments that allow you to increase the MOA depending on the range that you are shooting. This can be an advantage where you haven't sufficient adjustment in elevation in the scope.

 

[BoydAllen]

Burris makes tactical rings that have inserts that should solve your problem, assuming you are running a Picatinny scope base.

 

[308 shooter]

Yea I am running a Picatinny and thought of buying an 30 MOA rail , but was wondering the ways guy were getting around this issue,

The scope is a Sigthron 10x50x60 30 mm recommended by a veteran shooter , but I just went out and went through the turret to see what I had to work with and low and behold , it was maxed out at 39 or 40 MOA .

Do a lot of shooter use more than 20 MOA bases for FTR , or is that the norm and seems to work well for most ?

 

[308 shooter]

Thank you Guys appreciate the knowledge .

 

[willbas]

Guy's I new to shooting FTR 1000 yard , MY ? is do some of the shooter's with 308's use different size scope rings ( high in the rear and mediums in the front to assist with gaining MOA's in there scope ) similar to shimming .

I have a 20 MOA base and high rings on now, but find my scope is maxed out at 39 or 40 MOA and that 's what my 190 load is calling for in JBM Calc. , I ve read where you get the best accuracy/ consistency in the middle of the scope's range and I was wondering if this is something I should look at doing ? I probably have enough room on the scope barrel gap to fit mediums ring , ? how much vertical do you think I would gain just doing this ?

I was using 26 MOA for 100 yard Zero with 20 MOA scope base. I got Nightforce 40 MOA base now I am only using about 11 MOA for my 100 yard zero.

 

[Sniper338]

I run 30 moa rails... no issues.. high rings and sightron scopes on several rifles

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yea I am running a Picatinny and thought of buying an 30 MOA rail , but was wondering the ways guy were getting around this issue,

The scope is a Sigthron 10x50x60 30 mm recommended by a veteran shooter , but I just went out and went through the turret to see what I had to work with and low and behold , it was maxed out at 39 or 40 MOA .

Do a lot of shooter use more than 20 MOA bases for FTR , or is that the norm and seems to work well for most ?

I suspect you mean a Sightron 10-50X60 cope, possibly the SIIISS1050X60 of some type. The specs at the Sightron website show 50MOA of total travel. If everything i parallel on your rifle, this means that at mechanical zero, the mounted scope would have 25MOA of up travel and 25MOA of down travel. A .308 bullet will need something around 30MOA from 100 yards zero to be on at 1000 yards. So, with a 0 ramp, you're not going to get there.

If you use a 20MOA ramp, this makes the mechanical 0 of the mounted scope to have 5 MOA down and 45 MOA up. Let's say it takes about 3 MOAs to get to 100 yards, this makes 1000 yards around 33-35MOA, leaving 10MOA or more from the top. This would be about an entire revolution on that scope.

If your scope is maxed out at 40MOA, this would make the mechanical 0 be at 0 down and 40MOA up. You would still have about 7MOA to go before reaching the end, but it would seriously hamper the windage range. A 30MOA ramp would be the way to go.

DO NOT USE dissimilar height rings, I'm not even in favor of shimming the rings. If you can't get a 30MOA ramp, get the superb Burris Signature rings and use the inserts to create a cant. If you have a Pic rail, get the Signature Z rings. I have those on one of my F-TR rifles and they work just fine.

 

[308 shooter]

Turbulent thank you , that's the kind of info I was looking for and will assist me in getting to 1000 with my load and shorter than normal FTR barrel , The intel we new guy's garner from veterans like yourself save a lot of time and $ . really appreciate it , Happy Holiday's to all

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Wait, what do you mean by "shorter than normal FTR barrel?" Also, I just reread the OP and you are using 190gr bullets. Are those SMKs, by any chance?

 

[308 shooter]

No I am getting started with a 23 inch tube , but I just ordered a 30 inch heavy Palma for next year with a 1/11 ,

I am shooting Nosler 190 CC right now , cause I got them cheap , gonna head to the SW nat. in Feb. to shoot the clinic and will bring two loads for light and heavy winds , the others will be 175 smk ,when these are gone , will probably switch to 185 juggs and keep it simple , just getting my feet wet this year .

The biggest problem is finding a 1000 yard range to shoot at , out here in North Cali. sac valley is the only game around , and it's an hour away .

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

No I am getting started with a 23 inch tube , but I just ordered a 30 inch heavy Palma for next year with a 1/11 ,

I am shooting Nosler 190 CC right now , cause I got them cheap , gonna head to the SW nat. in Feb. to shoot the clinic and will bring two loads for light and heavy winds , the others will be 175 smk ,when these are gone , will probably switch to 185 juggs and keep it simple , just getting my feet wet this year .

The biggest problem is finding a 1000 yard range to shoot at , out here in North Cali. sac valley is the only game around , and it's an hour away .

I completely get that you are just getting into the game, so take my comments as "food for thought." By all means, use whatever you have to get started but...

Selecting a bullet "cause I got them cheap," is not the optimum way of getting THE load that works best in your rifle. Pinching pennies on bullets is very counter productive. When you consider all the costs of equipment, travel, registration fees, lodging, etc, the few cents you have saved per bullet pales into insignificance and yet the bullets are the actual raison d'etre of this game. Select the best bullet that you can get to work great in your rifle, cost is very secondary.

But you say, I will use cheap bullets for practice and premium bullets for the big matches. Just like you said that you have two loads, one for heavy winds and one for light winds. That concept is not optimum either. Pick a bullet, find a load that works great in your barrel and then set yourself up to reproduce that load as consistently as possible, in vast quantities. Then learn the snot out of it, and find out how it does in all conditions, good, bad, rain, shine, wind, calm, big match, local match, practice.

Can I enquire as to the specs of your new barrel? And may as well tell us about your current barrel.

 

[308 shooter]

Sure the current barrel is a Rock Creek 1-11.25 twist medium palma at 23 that shoots very well with my current loads of RL 15 42 grn. with the 190's nobler CC and 43 of the same with 175 SMK , using LC brass with rem 91/2 lrp , it'l shoot bughole's when I do my part , hopefully I am getting around 2500 out of the 190's to reach 1000 , 2600 out of the 175 ,

The new barrel is a Brux 1-11 in the Bartlein marksman contour to save some weight and it's coming in at 30 , I could increase the length to 31 and cut it to 30 if you think that would be a better length than the planned 29, it's basically a light heavy palma contour, less 30 thou. 970 to 870 at muzzle , have had several Brux barrels and they have been good to me and there great to work with .

MY practice being limited to 100 yard at this time , I go out and shoot prone and try to maintain 1/3 MOA or better groups to work on technique and hope , that will help me with distance 600 / 1000 shooting for match's , need to go shoot some distance and check my drops to assess actual velocity , Soon

As far as the bullet's go , when I can get 2 /100 packs of 190 Nosler CC for 17 bucks a 100 , I'm Buying , there not the 200X's from berger but there a good bullet for practice and to work up a load , I recently spent 2 years over sea's and am in the process of dialing up again at shooting , but your right when I get serious , I'l find a good load and get to know it , it's a process of Time and Money

Would you let me know what trigger your are using and roughly the pull weight for FTR as for I am thinking of a new trigger as well

Thanks Turtle

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Totally understood and getting into the game by any means is definitely the way to go.

Brux makes fine barrels and they are a good group to do business with. If it were me, I would consider increasing the twist to 1:10 and upping the contour to a full Heavy Palma. The faster twist allows you more flexibility when you get to the heavier bullets and Bryan Litz has reported that added spin decreases the loss of BC. (I just don't want to say that it increases the BC of the bullet.) Of course, I may have read his report incorrectly, but I that's what I got out of it.

My current F-TR rifle sports a full Heavy Palma contour 34 inch barrel with a twist faster than 1:10. I shoot the 210 JLKLBT bullets. I have a Seb Joy Pod and a March-X scope, both are very light and allow me the extra barrel weight and I still have almost 8 ounces under the limit.

This is a great place to get information and ask specific questions. Sometimes you even get answers.

Good luck to you and don't be shy here.

 

[HTSmith]

Burris makes tactical rings that have inserts that should solve your problem, assuming you are running a Picatinny scope base.

Plus one on this. I use about 10 MOA with the inserts on top of my 20 MOA rail to (about) have my scope centered at 1000. Just the regular rings will work if weight is close. Also you won't mark up your new scope.

 

[308 shooter]

So I just went out and shot at 300 and from a 100 yard zero was using 5 MOA and was GTG , that translate's to 2575 fps as per JBM ballistics , shot past 300 to 600 and was wondering why my rounds were hitting high with the dope I had for 2500 fps, that's quit a bit faster than I had anticipated the 190's going in a short 23 barrel , and no sign of pressure , primers look great , no cratering or ejection mark's , no heavy bolt lift .

At that velocity is 10 MOA gained by a 30 mil scope base going to be enough to put me back into the scope enough for accurate wind dialing ? at the current set up it say's I will need 39 MOA to 1000 , and that max's out what I have available now , so if I gain 10 back with the extra 10 in a new base , hopefully I'l be GTG , I think the easier of the 2 is a new base .

Definitely need to work my technique , I can see where 1000 is going to be a challenge ! just getting the scope dialed in with the mirage and parallax takes some getting used to , it was 63 out here today with a light breeze , nice day ,but can see the advantage to shooting in the AM before it warms up and works on the definition of the scope . I imagine phoenix is going to be fun .

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I want to make sure I understand what you wrote and what you are asking.

So I just went out and shot at 300 and from a 100 yard zero was using 5 MOA and was GTG , that translate's to 2575 fps as per JBM ballistics , shot past 300 to 600 and was wondering why my rounds were hitting high with the dope I had for 2500 fps, that's quit a bit faster than I had anticipated the 190's going in a short 23 barrel , and no sign of pressure , primers look great , no cratering or ejection mark's , no heavy bolt lift .

Are you saying that your rounds were impacting higher at 600 when you were using dope that was based on an MV of 2500FPS? How much higher were the impacts? Did they fit the dope based on 2757FPS?

At that velocity is 10 MOA gained by a 30 mil scope base going to be enough to put me back into the scope enough for accurate wind dialing ? at the current set up it say's I will need 39 MOA to 1000 , and that max's out what I have available now , so if I gain 10 back with the extra 10 in a new base , hopefully I'l be GTG , I think the easier of the 2 is a new base .

I think you mean a 30MOA scope base.

With a 30MOA canted base, your 50MOA adjustment range scope will be +5 down and +55 up at mechanical zero. You may not be able to get a 100 yard zero, but you will definitely be able to get a 1000 yard zero and have plenty of room for windage adjustment. My only concern is the range you reported initially being closer to 40MOA instead of the 50MOA of the website. You should verify that again, as it represents a whole rotation. Also. You should try to see if you can get say 10MOA of wind on the scope when it has only about 10 MOA (one rotation) left to the top end. That's enough windage to compensate shooting 2 target over, without holding.

Definitely need to work my technique , I can see where 1000 is going to be a challenge ! just getting the scope dialed in with the mirage and parallax takes some getting used to , it was 63 out here today with a light breeze , nice day ,but can see the advantage to shooting in the AM before it warms up and works on the definition of the scope . I imagine phoenix is going to be fun .

 

[BP1]

2575 FPS ^^^

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Dyslexics of the World, Untie!

"Look out, he's got a nug!"

 

[308 shooter]

Yea I didn't have the dope for 2575 , I don't use an app. , I am old school still write things down or print drops out and have them with me , and I really didn't think I was going to get that out of this load ? no spotter as well on my own at the range , so post recoil , I couldn't tell exactly where impact was and after 400 they shoot at steel swingers , until I got to 700+ yard's , I could finally see the bullet impact .

This is a Mom and Pop range that I luckily feel onto and allows me to shoot distance and cut my commute in half , going back today and going to try the remaining drops and another load with 175 SMK's and if I can get 2700 out of it or close , I thinking of shooting it and flattening things out and gaining some MOA back , will try the windage at the top of my turret and see where that is ? will shoot 400 today and verify drop between 300 /400 and with the new load .

Will probably get the Burris Zee rings you guys recommended and add 10 MOA if I need it ?

Thanks Turtle