New fangled powders...

[Archer]

Since it is time to spin on a new barrel, I thought this would be a good time to take a look at some of the new temperature insensitive, copper fouling reducing powders to fuel my FTR 308 rifle. I added a couple inches to this barrel this time, making it 28", since I had the weight to spare. I am planning to jump on the 200 gn bullet band wagon, either Berger or Sierra, still haven't decided but had the chamber throated such to accept them.

So, now to the powder discussion. I am considering the new IMR 4166, but I am concerned with it being a faster burn rate than the Varget I have been using and the peak pressure burning out before the end of the 28" tube. Then there is CFE 223, which charts out a little slower than Varget, which should then utilize more of the new tube for its pressure curve. Then I know of some who run IMR 4350 in longer tubes, 30", so I was also considering the new IMR 4451 to push this new heavy-weight.

So many powder choices, I just thought I would start a friendly discussion so that people can voice their choices and/or thoughts regarding some of the new powders available. I will ultimately pick a pound of each to try, but I really hadn't seen too much discussion one way or the other on these new offerings specifically with the heavies. There is load data available for all but the IMR 4451 for the 308 with the 200, but there is data for IMR 4350 with the 190 and the 200 which is what the IMR 4451 supposed to emulate.

I know I could just take the simple way out and continue to use Varget, but with supplies what they are I thought I would consider some of the others. Plus if it means I have to spend less time cleaning copper fouling out by choosing one of these new fangled powders, all the better.

Keep it civil guys...

 

[dmoran]

Archer -

To add to your "New fangled list": Alliant is coming out with RL16 !.!.!
Donovan

 

[ShootDots]

Donovan, thanks for the "heads-up" on RL-16.. I just looked at the Alliant description of it and it looks GREAT! I might just get some and try it in my new Dasher with the Berger 108's! I had NO IDEA they came out with this powder. Thanks again!!

 

[dmoran]

Ben -
I got my fingers crossed as well !.!.!
Donovan

 

[Archer]

Archer -

To add to your "New fangled list": Alliant is coming out with RL16 !.!.!
Donovan

Gee Thanks...just what I needed is one more to choose from...LOL

 

[Mozella]

Your questions are just the thing Quickload can help you with. I recently bought a copy and, in the long run, I hope it will pay for itself since I will reduce the number of one pound powder jugs I have sitting on my shelf while I wonder what to do with them. I wish it cost 75 bucks, 'cause that's what it's really worth. Unfortunately, it's more than double that and for that price it should be less quirky, a little more user friendly, and bug free, which it ain't. Nevertheless, it's a useful and surprisingly accurate piece of software.

 

[4xforfun]

So now, in the burn rates that I use, I will have RL15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 23, 25, 26, and 33!!

WOW!!

 

[jlow]

Your questions are just the thing Quickload can help you with. I recently bought a copy and, in the long run, I hope it will pay for itself since I will reduce the number of one pound powder jugs I have sitting on my shelf while I wonder what to do with them. I wish it cost 75 bucks, 'cause that's what it's really worth. Unfortunately, it's more than double that and for that price it should be less quirky, a little more user friendly, and bug free, which it ain't. Nevertheless, it's a useful and surprisingly accurate piece of software.

Keep in mind that QL will not have some of the new powders... That is one drawback of using a new powder.

 

[rogn]

For what its worth, Im using 4451 in a 6X44mm bench rifle and Im finding the burn rate in this cartridge is about identical to H4350. This burning behind 105 -108gr 6mm bullets.

 

[dbduff]

Is Reloader 16 available to the public now? Discerning minds want to know. Thanks
D

 

[cf]

Is Reloader 16 available to the public now? Discerning minds want to know. Thanks
D

checked with Alliant Monday they said late spring early summer. who knows i figure some time this year.Cody

 

[Archer]

For what its worth, Im using 4451 in a 6X44mm bench rifle and Im finding the burn rate in this cartridge is about identical to H4350. This burning behind 105 -108gr 6mm bullets.

Thank you, this is the kind of information I am looking for, especially since there isn't a lot of published load info on these new powders.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

So now, in the burn rates that I use, I will have RL15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 23, 25, 26, and 33!!

WOW!!

I have the old school RL12... It's great for 150gr size bullets...

 

[dbduff]

Thanks CF-found load data but no info on where it could be had.
D

 

[Nvreloader]

Per Ed Dillon,

RL-16 is IN the newest update for QL along with several new bullets/powders etc.

Waiting for my copy to get here.

Tia,
Don

 

[jimbires]

I purchased my quickload update 12/17/2015 . I do not have RL16 . I do have the hornady ELD bullets .

 

[WindSurgeon]

Wondering how the 16 would compare to reloader 17 for .284.

 

[Brians356]

FTR 308 rifle. I added a couple inches to this barrel this time, making it 28", since I had the weight to spare. I am planning to jump on the 200 gn bullet band wagon, either Berger or Sierra, still haven't decided but had the chamber throated such to accept them.

So, now to the powder discussion. I am considering the new IMR 4166, but I am concerned with it being a faster burn rate than the Varget I have been using and the peak pressure burning out before the end of the 28" tube. Then there is CFE 223, which charts out a little slower than Varget, which should then utilize more of the new tube for its pressure curve. Then I know of some who run IMR 4350 in longer tubes, 30", so I was also considering the new IMR 4451 to push this new heavy-weight.

It's a bit surprising that Hodgdon's online 308 Win load data does not list 4451 for 200-gr bullet. They do list 4166. As it happens, 4166 produces 3rd fasted max velocity behind only CFE 223 and BL-C(2) from 24-in barrel FWIW. So it seems 4166 is a promising powder with the 200-gr bullet (as is CFE 223.)

The absence of 4451 from the data could be insignificant, but I would call Hodgdon and ask them if they tested 4451 with that combination. It's not unlikely they did, and found it less than worthwhile to publish.

 

[Archer]

It's a bit surprising that Hodgdon's online 308 Win load data does not list 4451 for 200-gr bullet. They do list 4166. As it happens, 4166 produces 3rd fasted max velocity behind only CFE 223 and BL-C(2) from 24-in barrel FWIW. So it seems 4166 is a promising powder with the 200-gr bullet (as is CFE 223.)

The absence of 4451 from the data could be insignificant, but I would call Hodgdon and ask them if they tested 4451 with that combination. It's not unlikely they did, and found it less than worthwhile to publish.

It seemed odd to me also, that is one reason I was asking the members of this forum if they had a chance to try IMR 4451 as a possibility to bring down pressure with that big bullet.

I have found and purchased some CFE 223 to try, just as soon as the snow melts...

 

[jimbo88mm]

It's a bit surprising that Hodgdon's online 308 Win load data does not list 4451 for 200-gr bullet. They do list 4166. As it happens, 4166 produces 3rd fasted max velocity behind only CFE 223 and BL-C(2) from 24-in barrel FWIW. So it seems 4166 is a promising powder with the 200-gr bullet (as is CFE 223.)

The absence of 4451 from the data could be insignificant, but I would call Hodgdon and ask them if they tested 4451 with that combination. It's not unlikely they did, and found it less than worthwhile to publish.

I don't see H4350 or IMR4350 listed for 200gr bullets either. Since both of those are in the same burn rate range that would seem to indicate hodgon doesn't like the slower powders in a 308 with heavier bullets.

I've been using 4451 in my 260 and a number of milsurps. I use it for the 260 because H4350 is difficult to find at times. The copper reducing features appeal to me for the milsurps as a few of them like to collect copper.