New F T/R Class Shooter Help Needed

[Gun Guy]

Hello Everyone,

I am planning to begin shooting F Class in 2014. I have previously shot Service Rifle HP. I have a few questions that I hope some of you can provide me guidance on:

1.) I live in Wisconsin. So would mainly shoot in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan with a desire to eventually go to Camp Perry. Is there more shooters in F T/R or F Open in my area of the country (Lodi, etc.)?

2.) Ideally I would like to shoot F T/R. For a rifle I would plan on getting a Savage 12 FTR in 308. Would this be a good rifle to get a start with? I want to avoid custom rifles etc. until I learn more about the class etc.

3.) For a scope I would put on a high end NightForce or Sightron (Others?). Can you recommend the best scope in these lines or other lines for F T/R?

4.) Can you give me a recommendation on the best bipod for the front of the rifle? What do "most" people use?

5.) Can you give me a recommendation on best back rest bags for F T/R?

I know these questions are subjective and based on personal preference but I am interested in what some of you more experienced shooters can recommend as I start out.

Thank You!

Dave

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Hello Everyone,

I am planning to begin shooting F Class in 2014. I have previously shot Service Rifle HP. I have a few questions that I hope some of you can provide me guidance on:

1.) I live in Wisconsin. So would mainly shoot in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan with a desire to eventually go to Camp Perry. Is there more shooters in F T/R or F Open in my area of the country (Lodi, etc.)?

I'm sure there are, Lodi is quite the place to shoot F-class. I was there for the 2011 Nationals.

2.) Ideally I would like to shoot F T/R. For a rifle I would plan on getting a Savage 12 FTR in 308. Would this be a good rifle to get a start with? I want to avoid custom rifles etc. until I learn more about the class etc.

Excellent choice, it's an awesome rifle at any price.

3.) For a scope I would put on a high end NightForce or Sightron (Others?). Can you recommend the best scope in these lines or other lines for F T/R?

The 12-42X56 NF BR is an excellent choice. The new NF Competition 15-55X56 is also a great choice. My NF 12-42X56 NXS has the NP2DD reticle. You want to have a simple reticle because you will be holding off on the target. More magnification is better than less.

4.) Can you give me a recommendation on the best bipod for the front of the rifle? What do "most" people use?

There are many bipods and some can get quite pricey; I'm sure other will be here shortly to recommend others but I have been well served with the Sinclair Gen 3 with the integral adjustment.

5.) Can you give me a recommendation on best back rest bags for F T/R?

Because the Savage 12 FTR does not have a flat stock in the rear, you are better off with a rear bag that is not too big on top so that you can adjust the elevation easily. I have been using a Protektor 41 for several years, loaded with heavy (chromite) sand.

I know these questions are subjective and based on personal preference but I am interested in what some of you more experienced shooters can recommend as I start out.

Thank You!

Dave

Good luck, welcome to the sickness and good luck. I will add that picking a bullet and then upping your loading technique to a fine art may be in your future.

 

[Gun Guy]

Thanks for the great reply! This is very helpful to me.

 

[boltman13]

I am like you, new to the F-TR game but experience at High Power. I have been fortunate to get expert opinions from some top notch F class shooters so these are not my thoughts but theirs. Your rifle choice is an excellent start and if you reach a point where it seems to be holding you back, then it's time for a custom barrel and perhaps some light gunsmithing on the action. As long as you are comfortable with the stock it can last you forever. Your bipod needs to be adjustable as firing points do differ enough to require this. I also have the Sinclair Gen III and like it. The newest bipod with the fine adjustment lever seems like a good idea but they are expensive. The large Midway shooting mat gives the shooter a much bigger area to spread out on, and is very inexpensive. Not too sure how durable it is, but so far mine is holding up well. so far. The two factors that will help you the most is optics and the quality of your loads. Nightforce is the best if you have the $$$, I am happy with my Sightron 10X50X50 and do not feel it holds me back. The quality of your load can undo all other factors if you are not careful. Weigh all powder charges, consider weighing brass and bullets. Meplat uniforming may eventually be necessary to get to the elite level. Find a load that gives adequate velocity to stay at mach 1.2 or higher at 1,000 yds with as small a SD as possible. Get Brian Litz's book on long range ballistics, read it several times, it has given me excellent advice on what to look for in the way of bullets and loads. Practice as much as possible, at the longest range you can, and learn all you can about wind reading. Best of luck.

 

[Steve Blair]

2.) Ideally I would like to shoot F T/R. For a rifle I would plan on getting a Savage 12 FTR in 308. Would this be a good rifle to get a start with? I want to avoid custom rifles etc. until I learn more about the class etc.

Excellent choice, it's an awesome rifle at any price.

[br]
Really, Denys?

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Well, maybe I got carried away.

It's a great starter rifle and let's leave it at that.

 

[Steve Blair]

I can certainly agree with that. I have two Savage F-Class rifles and started shooting F-TR with one of them.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Steve, now that I reread the OP once again, I remember why I made the statement I did. Gun Guy specifically stated he wanted to avoid going the custom route right now. When I answered initially I had that in mind and I am unaware of any off-the-shelf rifle that will be better suited to 1000yds F-TR than the Savage 12 FTR. I have welcomed a lot of new shooters at our club bringing all manners of stock .308 rifles and the few who bring a Savage 12 FTR usually do better than the ones who bring Remchestgers 70, 700, 77, etc, Sakos and so on. I also saw a bunch of people shooting that rifle at the FCNC and the FCWC and some of them even hit the target multiple times. So, staying within the parameters of the OP, the Savage 12 FTR is THE way to go.

If Gun Guy really gets into the game, he will be able to spec out a custom rifle whenever he feels the Savage 12 is holding him back.


Edit: By off-the-shelf, I mean get it out of the box, mount a scope, install a bipod, get some ammo and go shoot.

 

[Steve Blair]

Denys, my quibble was not with the choice but the hyperbole.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, but let's not allow that to get in the way of a good argument; just because we agree doesn't mean we can't argue.

Have a happy new year, my friend.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Lodi is a nice range that goes back to 1200yds, but there are also 600yd ranges at Eau Claire, LaCrosse, WI Rapids, Wausau and Racine. Lodi normally has predictable winds on the average day, but it can have its share of unkind days. Racine is next hardest, followed by Wausau. WI Rapids, Eau Claire and LaCrosse fall into the bunny category on most days. The 2014 schedule is not yet completed, but you can watch for updates at http://www.wi-force.org/ MN has a real nice 1000yd range up at Harris that can be challenging. Take stakes to hold you down at Harris so the skeeters don't carry you off.

We have a shooter here that has shot some real fine scores using the Savage barreled action in a metal stock and beyond that, he headspaced an aftermarket barrel to the action. He shoots 155's in FTR and has a ball. Most of the folks around these parts shoot the 185 Berger and they use the higher power Nightforce variables.

 

[broncman]

I started with a Savage FTR, Nightforce BR and a harris.

By the end of the season I ended up with custom flat rear stock, minigator bag, Duplin bipod, Savage action and scope remains but it has a shilen select match barrel with a tuner. It shoots 185 Bergers as good as I can hold. Looking forward to 2014.

 

[gaboon]

Look at sightron 8x32 or the 10x50 to start with. For the rear bag Dr Protekor , any protekor model, and any edgewood bags. You cant beat them for money. They will last a lifetime.

 

[Dos XX]

Savage F/TR is a great rifle to start with. It handles 155 and 155.5 bullets well. It is chambered a little short for 185ish grain bullets, but it can be done. If you find out the sport is not for you, you could sell it and not take a major hit on it. If you stay with it, you can upgrade that rifle or go full custom or both. Bedding the stock and an aftermarket barrel are good places to start if you want to upgrade that rifle.

Be aware of the weight limit, 18.15 lbs I think, in F/TR when choosing bipod, scope, rings, etc. That rifle is 12.65 lbs. If you intend to bed it and put a heavier barrel on it later, you need to be aware of what your current components weigh individually. If you buy a heavy bipod, heavy scope, and heavy rings now, you might be limited on barrel choices later. Heavier barrel might not matter to you. Just making you aware.

Duplin, Centershot, and M Pod are the light weight bipods that I am aware of. I am using the Duplin and I like it. I would likely get along just as well with the others. I just ended up with the Duplin. I started out with a Harris bipod and a tactical, squeeze type rear bag. I already owned both those items. They got me in the game and let me figure things out before I went after a wider, F type specific bipod and an ear type rear bag. It didn't take long to get to where I knew I needed a different bipod and bag.

You can't go wrong with a Nightforce scope. They hold their value extremely well, so again you could sell it if you didn't stay with the sport without taking a large hit. I see Sightrons for sale used as well, but I don't know what they bring compared to new prices. I am using 12-42 NXS and I am happy with it. I would look at the 2014 Competition if I were looking for one now and the available date met my needs.

I am using Ken Farrell steel base and rings on my Savage F/TR. He makes top grade stuff. You can probably get lighter bases and rings if you need them. He may offer aluminum in fact. He has a base for the Savage PTA. You need a base with no recoil lug for that action as it is closed top. If you are going to shoot 1000 yd, you will likely need a 20 or 30 moa base depending on your scope. I have 20 on mine. My calculations say I will be able to get to 1000yds with a 100 yd zero with my NXS 12-42. I will know for sure in about 2 weeks.

Protektor or Edgewood bags are what I see the most of. The stock on that rifle is fairly thin on the bottom. I like mine to ride on the ears as opposed to the material on the bottom between the ears. This has to do with the distance between the ears. I'm using the Protektor DR. I can't remember what spacing I bought, but I am will to look it up if you are interested.

Good luck. You will be hooked.

 

[Gun Guy]

Thank you everyone for all the help! I can see that there are many decisions to be made. Thank You Again, Dave

 

[coues52]

Great thread ! Danny

 

[savageshooter86]

My personal experience. Take it for what it is worth.

Sold my old rifle and wanted to get a good set up that was better than the off the shelf Walmart hunting specials. Debated for 2 months on whether to buy the Savage PTA, stock, and get a nice custom barrel(total cost would have been around $1400) OR to buy the off the shelf ready to go Savage 12 FTR($1100). Was convinced by all the hype and stuff on the internet to go with the stock FTR. So if you do the math I would have spent about $300 more if I would have bought the components to build the rifle and got a custom chamber exactly how I wanted and for the bullets I wanted to shoot)

Now 900 rounds later with the Savage FTR 308 and I am still fighting to get consistent loads. Even after numerous load work ups and 5 different bullets and 3 different powders.

As far as scope you will not be disappointed with the Sightron S111 model in either the 8-32x or the 10-50x.

I had a Sinclair FTR bipod and sent it back to the company and got my money back. Bought a Duplin bipod and have zero complaints about it. Very solid and lite weight.

 

[C. Collins]

How far is Lodi from the border of U.P.? Here is a link to Border states rifle club. They shoot 600 and 1000 yard matches up here in U.P. We also have a couple matches in Negaunee.

http://www.borderstatesrifle.org/#!events/results

www.negauneerodandgun.com

Check out our calendar and events. Things don't get started till May. Give me a shout if your interested.

Chris

 

[Gun Guy]

Thanks Chris. That info is helpful. I look forward to shooting in some events at your club.