New components, Old press

[amcmullen]

I am hoping for a little help with answering a question about an old press that I'm currently using. It's an old Lyman Spartan single stage and I'm sure it's way older than I am (42). My question is, would a new press improve the reloading process and, more importantly, improve consistency, accuracy?

The reason I'm asking is that I noticed that with a new RCBS 6.5 C die set the only way that I can full length resize and bump the shoulder back .002 is jamming the shell holder into the resizing die. As a result I'm camming the lever over pretty hard and I can see the press flexing from the force. (The flexing I'm noticing may be the table moving)

I'm pretty new to reloading so this might be something that is completely normal...or something that is hindering my reloading process.

Thank you in advance!

 

[D the D]

I have used an ancient Spartans for decades. What you describe is normal. Those presses are solid as the Rock of Gibralter and the frame doesn't flex.
The need to bump over is not the press, it's in the die and shellholder.
You may want to try a different shellholder.
For consistency, the ram may be worn from usage, so a new inline press might be more consistent.

 

[SeabeeKen]

If you are flexing an old c frame press it make crack or break eventually. Id consider an o press. A bit of play in the ram is fine since the die is in control once the case goes in

 

[GLShooter]

Grind the shell holder about 0.005 or so and forget cam over. It's worked fir me for 45 years.

Greg

 

[amcmullen]

If you are flexing an old c frame press it make crack or break eventually. Id consider an o press. A bit of play in the ram is fine since the die is in control once the case goes in

Thank you, i took a video and I think the "flexing" is the table moving.

 

[amcmullen]

Grind the shell holder about 0.005 or so and forget came over. It's worked fir me for 45 years.

Greg

I'm embarrassed that i hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

 

[amcmullen]

I have used an ancient Spartans for decades. What you describe is normal. Those presses are solid as the Rock of Gibralter and the frame doesn't flex.
The need to bump over is not the press, it's in the die and shellholder.
You may want to try a different shellholder.
For consistency, the ram may be worn from usage, so a new inline press might be more consistent.

Thank you!

 

[M-61]

more importantly, improve consistency, accuracy?

No.

 

[M-61]

The press, has nothing to do with accuracy or consistency.
The die is important part aside from every other step requiring accuracy and consistency.
Don’t know your press but I’ll guess it’s not flexing one bit.
When I was a kid “C” presses we were told we’re no good because of flexing. Looking back that’s all BS
Some presses are handier to use, some you just like the looks. Think of Wilson dies. Gee, no press at all, except for an arbor press which you could use a wood working vise to do the job.
I have 7 mounted presses. The results from all with accuracy are the same. Why then do I have 7? I like tools, and I’ve been at this for 60 years.
Last was a Lee cast iron, super deal, and it is beyond strong.

 

[amcmullen]

The press, has nothing to do with accuracy or consistency.
The die is important part aside from every other step requiring accuracy and consistency.
Don’t know your press but I’ll guess it’s not flexing one bit.
When I was a kid “C” presses we were told we’re no good because of flexing. Looking back that’s all BS
Some presses are handier to use, some you just like the looks. Think of Wilson dies. Gee, no press at all, except for an arbor press which you could use a wood working vise to do the job.
I have 7 mounted presses. The results from all with accuracy are the same. Why then do I have 7? I like tools, and I’ve been at this for 60 years.
Last was a Lee cast iron, super deal, and it is beyond strong.

Thank you for the help and advice, admittedly I have a lot to learn and I'm trying not to spend money needlessly. However, if there is something worth spending money on, im all ears.

I filed down my existing shell holder and got the shoulder bumped .004 without issue.

 

[Bill K]

Watch and check your case for signs of pending separation. Most bumping of the shoulder is usually .001-.002 for a given chamber measurement. You may be overdoing it with .004. Load safe and sane.

 

[dryhumor]

It would be worth keeping the shell holder with the die set also, once one is set or designated for a certain caliber.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

I have one shellholder that has been reduced due to a need. That same shellholder works just fine with a couple other full length sizer dies with out camming over.

Frank

 

[K22]

First of all, do you need to bump the shoulder? In my experience, most of the time I only need to size to a zero to .001 bump to produce proper chambering. The reason I suspect that this is so, is that the radial dimension is also sized with sizing with a F/L die and this often is all that is necessary.

Second, I agree with others, the press had nothing to offer regarding accuracy. I knew some old shooter who used the old Lyman C presses without issue. Of course, the O ring design is more robust, but the C design has worked for a lot of reloaders for a lot of years.

Cam over is normal especially with old presses that have some looseness in the linkages.

If the press is not mounted on an inflexible, solid and rigid surface, then the press will flex giving the perception of difficult sizing. Insufficient lube will also increase difficulty in sizing.

I know a lot of reloaders advocate grinding down the shell holder to change sizing. In fact, the Redding Competition Shell Holder set employs the concept of different shell holder dimensions. However, the shell holder is engineered to work with the die so before I would modify it, I would consider the above issues. In other words, your perception of difficult sizing may be due to the mounting of the press or improper lubing. I have loaded thousands of centerfire rifle rounds for over 50 years in a number of different calibers and brands of firearms and never had to modify a shell holder that was engineered to work with a specific brand of dies.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The Competition shell holder’s mentioned above have been one of my best reloading investments.

 

[KMW 1954]

My worthless opinion, NO. Another press is not going to make any significant difference. Unless the press is complete trash or the ram and die axis are out of alignment. Which I doubt.

What will make the greatest impact in your finished product will be the dies used and your basic technique. Brass prep work and the final components used has the greatest impact, along with attention to the small details.

Shooting at minute sized bench targets, I am doing all my reloading on a 40yo RCBS Reloader JR and a Lee 3 hole turret press. Ammo I produce will still shoot cloverleafs at 100yds. and I am not that great a shot.

 

[6.5 forever]

Thank you for the help and advice, admittedly I have a lot to learn and I'm trying not to spend money needlessly. However, if there is something worth spending money on, im all ears.

I filed down my existing shell holder and got the shoulder bumped .004 without issue.

.004 will cut the life of your brass. I never bump over
.002.
The exception might be hunting or competition rounds, neither of which I do now.

 

[Webster]

The press, has nothing to do with accuracy or consistency.
The die is important part aside from every other step requiring accuracy and consistency.
Don’t know your press but I’ll guess it’s not flexing one bit.
When I was a kid “C” presses we were told we’re no good because of flexing. Looking back that’s all BS
Some presses are handier to use, some you just like the looks. Think of Wilson dies. Gee, no press at all, except for an arbor press which you could use a wood working vise to do the job.
I have 7 mounted presses. The results from all with accuracy are the same. Why then do I have 7? I like tools, and I’ve been at this for 60 years.
Last was a Lee cast iron, super deal, and it is beyond strong.

Pretty ard to bend a piece of cast iron.

 

[amcmullen]

Pretty ard to bend a piece of cast iron.

Yeah,it looked like it was flexing but it was the whole table.

 

[amcmullen]

.004 will cut the life of your brass. I never bump over
.002.
The exception might be hunting or competition rounds, neither of which I do now.

I only bumped it that much because after filling, that's what the new sized dimensions were. I kept the size die in tbe same spot but the filled shell holder allowed that much. I only want to size .001 or .002 going forward.