New Compact LabRadar at NRA Exhibits.

[GotRDid]

Meant to post this earlier, but stopped by the LabRadar kiosk at the Dallas Exhibits. They had their edition of the new “micro” unit on display. Chatted with them for a bit, and they were excited about their product.






It appears to be a solid unit, and price point MSRP is the same as Garmin. Not sure how it will fare against the Garmin with the traction it has already gained on them, and with apparent discounts already being offered through various vendors.
I will say that the many times we passed their spot in our orbits over two days, there was no traffic, and I swear I could hear crickets.

Edit: The unit is significantly heavier than the Garmin.

 

[Kurz]

This doesn't surprise me at all. They stomped on the market with their original release.

Then Garmin comes along and clobbers them senseless.

Resting on your laurels only gets you rested...

Good Luck to Everyone!

 

[jepp2]

If you look at how long they rested on their original design, then how quickly they developed an improved and smaller version, clearly they were just reaping the profits.

To compete against the much larger Garmin company, they would have to have a lower price with better capability to survive.

 

[boltfluter]

The original Lab Radar is on sale at Brownells for 450.00 now! Too funny.

 

[CJ6]

And like new used ones with all the bells and whistles going for about $300 shipped.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I don't know much about the Garmins!! But one feature of the LRs is the multiple down range velocities! When I have a little more time on my hands, I'm going to start looking at the drag of instability vs stability drag!!! Until the bullet gets to stability, it experiences higher drag and a faster deceleration of velocity than a bullet in true stable flight.

I have 105 hrs of pure applied science, BS physics and AS Mathematics!!! I can say this: The muzzle velocity from chronographs is a mathematical backtrack calculation and could not be true muzzle velocity!!! They are really close, but how close??? One way to find true muzzle velocity using a ultra high speed video with a measuring scale close to the muzzle in the background!! Knowing the distance of the objective lens and to the centerline of the bore, and the distance from the bore axis to the measuring scale, we can account for angular measuring error!! The camera is a single point and the distances have different length rays!!! Using trig, and knowing the ray lengths and angles, the calculation of true travel distance can be calculated!! With that true measured distance, and knowing how many frames are in that distance, time of flight for that distance can be calculated!!! Simple physic now!!! True muzzle velocity equals the true distance traveled divided by the time of flight for that distance!!

 

[boltfluter]

I don't know much about the Garmins!! But one feature of the LRs is the multiple down range velocities! When I have a little more time on my hands, I'm going to start looking at the drag of instability vs stability drag!!! Until the bullet gets to stability, it experiences higher drag and a faster deceleration of velocity than a bullet in true stable flight.

I have 105 hrs of pure applied science, BS physics and AS Mathematics!!! I can say this: The muzzle velocity from chronographs is a mathematical backtrack calculation and could not be true muzzle velocity!!! They are really close, but how close??? One way to find true muzzle velocity using a ultra high speed video with a measuring scale close to the muzzle in the background!! Knowing the distance of the objective lens and to the centerline of the bore, and the distance from the bore axis to the measuring scale, we can account for angular measuring error!! The camera is a single point and the distances in the are different length rays!!! Using trig, and knowing the ray lengths and angles, the calculation of true travel distance can be calculated!! With that true measured distance, and knowing how many frames are in that distance, time of flight for that distance can be calculated!!! Simple physic now!!! True muzzle velocity equals the true distance traveled divided by the time of flight for that distance!!

Wild Bill,
Makes sense. How far off do you think today's chronograph readings really are? Just curious is all.
Paul

 

[Eagle Six]

It appears it has 3 more buttons than the Garmin, that's impressive. It also appears to be 2x, 3x, or more larger than the Garmin, which implies it may be heavier. The tripod looks like it may be more substantial than the Garmin. I will assume it does something in addition to what the Garmin offers in their current C1 model. Interesting little gizmo. I'm interested in how it will fare in the market place. I've never had a Lab, and my Zero C1 does everything I need, but still interested.

As for true muzzle velocity, it's only after the bullet has been sent that we can get velocity from any device and it doesn't apply precisely to the next bullet, just a calculated guess!

 

[prone.life]

As far as I can tell this is still vaporware. It was announced and displayed at SHOT show with a projected release date of May but as of this morning the new unit is still not on their website nor do I see any vendors taking pre-orders.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

Wild Bill,
Makes sense. How far off do you think today's chronograph readings really are? Just curious is all.
Paul

Using the 1st step of the scientific method, I have to make an assumption based on my hypothesis!!! The LR specifications claims accuracy to +/-0.1% if memory serves me right!! That means, at a reading of 3000f/s, the radar accuracy is with in +/-3f/s. It could be 3003- 2997f/s. That is the accuracy of the doppler radar itself!! A spread (range in statistics) of 6f/s!!!

We as users of these radars inflict our own errors. 1) Keeping the muzzle face plane in the same radars face plane. 2) maintaining the barrel axis distance to the sensors, transmitters, and receivers!! But, for muzzle brakes, you have to alter the planes!! For Magnums, you have to increase axis to sensor distance, and may have to use a barrier!! All these factors can increase, or decrease the LR displayed velocities!! In other words, a shooter could be cheating or hindering themselves!! Say the muzzle is sticking past 3inches!! The radar looks for a signal 15 yards down range!! That 3 inches of cheating will change the true distance of 15 yards by 0.555%! In other words, the true velocity would be roughly 0.6% less than displayed velocity for single point velocities!!! But, the additional velocity data will decrease this error!! It could bring that error down to 0.05%!! Now, adding this error to the accuracy, the velocity display error would +/-0.15%! 3inch add 50% more error to the LR accuracy error!!! I CALL THIS SELF INDUCED ERROR!!! BOTTOMS UP!!!!

Having set everything perfect, (an oxymoron term) an taking an educated guess (assumption), I hypothesis 1/1000 (0.1%) to 3/1000 (0.3%)!! It is within 1 to 3 fps!!! REMINDER, A HYPOTHESIS AND NOT A TRUE ERROR. This is where I would collect data and analysis for the 2ND STEP OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD!! HIGH SPEED VIDEO DATA VS ALL BRANDS AND MODELS OF DOPPLER RADARS DATA SETS!!!

Does this cause changing in the down range ballistics?? Not too much!! But, the accumulation or sums of all slight errors could pass the 0.5% Long Range velocity threshold!!! Meaning errors in plane and sensor distances and hitting the true extremes of LR accuracy could put the shooter within the 0.5% threshold!! Now adding the backtrack velocities to true velocities accuracy errors, the shooter now could exceed that threshold!!

 

[STOMP442]

I'll stick with my Magneto. 1/3 the price, fits in my range bag and gives me accurate readings every time.

 

[LVLAaron]

If it can start a new string by pressing one button, I will eat my garmin and buy this.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I'll stick with my Magneto. 1/3 the price, fits in my range bag and gives me accurate readings every time.

The magneto would be the best for getting a really close true muzzle velocity!!! That would be ALMOST as accurate as the high speed video!!!

 

[hogpatrol]

If it can start a new string by pressing one button, I will eat my garmin and buy this.

From my standpoint, it's the only thing about the Garmin that needs to be changed. Having to chug through the steps for a new session is Windows 2.0.

 

[LVLAaron]

From my standpoint, it's the only thing about the Garmin that needs to be changed. Having to chug through the steps for a new session is Windows 2.0.

It drives me SO crazy. I hated it about the LR, got excited that the bluetooth app would do it, but BT never worked...

Now we have an awesome garmin, but it's like 72 button presses to start a new string. It keeps me up at night.

 

[Knotwild]

Don't forget - this one is right down the pike and waiting on a critique.

Caldwell Velociradar

 

[GotRDid]

I'll stick with my Magneto. 1/3 the price, fits in my range bag and gives me accurate readings every time.

It is small enough not to be obtrusive in your Range Bag; in fact, you might lose it in there..

 

[hogpatrol]

For the COBs, bought this hard sided case for the unit from Amazon, $11.99 and instead of plugging and unplugging the power connector, use the magnetic charging setup.

 

[Kurz]

Don't forget - this one is right down the pike and waiting on a critique.

Caldwell Velociradar

Ain't industrial espionage great?

Several years of just one player then within 6 months we have 3 nearly all the same size and capabilities...

 

[rijndael]

Several years of just one player then within 6 months we have 3 nearly all the same size and capabilities...

We've had the AndiScan and other European ones for a couple of years.

And, I've been hearing about the Caldwell for a while now, probably since 2020; I'd guess it was just delayed and they realized they had to get in once the Garmin came out.