New brass, new dies

[waldo1979]

Just got my Whidden .308 FL sizer bushing die today. For some reason it's leaving scratches on my Lapua Palma brass.

I cleaned the inside of the die with Boretech eliminator and tried polishing with #0000 steel wool. There is a mirror finish on the inside of the dies.

I'm using imperial sizing wax as lube. Any idea what is causing the scratches?

 

[zipollini]

How clean is the brass before sizing ?

 

[jonbearman]

It almost looks like one of the first ones you sized didn't have enough lube and it galled leaving some brass stuck to the wall of the die which will cause bad scratching and eventually get worse. I polish the inside of my dies with simichrome paste with a wadded rag on an old brush. I chuck it in a drill and spin for a short time. Then I clean it out and check with a bore scope. You can take a toothpick and feel the surface by inserting it in the body area and drag it very lightly and you should be able to feel any roughness.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I bet they shoot fine just clean your brass a bit better and clean the die with the polish in the drill as the bear man suggested to keep it from happening again. Those mirror finishes create a lot of surface tension and make em sticky til they get worn in

 

[waldo1979]

How clean is the brass before sizing ?

New once fired brass, hand wiped. It boys very dirty at all.

I've ran some pretty nasty brass through my Forster dies without issues.

 

[waldo1979]

Upon further inspect there are some tooling marks on the inspect of the

It almost looks like one of the first ones you sized didn't have enough lube and it galled leaving some brass stuck to the wall of the die which will cause bad scratching and eventually get worse. I polish the inside of my dies with simichrome paste with a wadded rag on an old brush. I chuck it in a drill and spin for a short time. Then I clean it out and check with a bore scope. You can take a toothpick and feel the surface by inserting it in the body area and drag it very lightly and you should be able to feel any roughness.

I don't think this is the case. Upon further inspection there are some marks inside the die that look like they're left over from manufacuring. I tried polishing with BJ bore paste and some steel wheel. The dies a bit shinner but is still leaving scratched.

Also, I'm not sure it's related but it's taking two passes to properly bump the shoulders.

 

[ireload2]

If you have a lathe or a spud that will thread into the top of the die spin it at about 400 to 600 RPM and polish it lightly with 400 grit to 600 grit silicon carbide paper used wet with a light lubricant or oil like WD-40 or kerosene. You should only need about 2 or 3 minutes to improve the surface. Otherwise send it back and let Whidden polish it so they cannot blame you if there are other problems.

 

[JohnKielly]

I wouldn't be happy with the scratching but from my experience, I'm sure John Whidden will support his product in that respect. However it seems possible that your chamber is not compatible with the die, maybe a tad generous in the base. There is a possible indication that can't be finally determined from the image that the area above the head has expanded beyond case head diameter, but that's inconclusive, so I wouldn't be betting my soft bits on that.

 

[gotcha]

Had the same problem with a Forster F/L die recently and tried polishing with steel wool wrapped around bore mop. Also used Simi-chrome polish on a mop. Neither method worked........... Sent the die back to Forster to have the neck opened so I could size W/O using expander. Forster re-polished both the neck and the body. The die now works perfectly. Scratches are history.

 

[Shynloco]

waldo,
Call Whidden and send it back to have it repolished. I 've had similar issues with Redding Dies and they always made good on correcting this issue after a batch of (bad) final step dies hit the market and people lost their jobs over it. Whidden will also make good on their products. That's a die issue and has zip to do with the chamber of your rifle. so long as the bolt closes without extreme effort.

Alex

 

[jonbearman]

I had a forster that did it and upon inspection it was brass build up and steel wool and simichrome worked great and now it doesn't leave a single mark.

 

[waldo1979]

I contacted Whidden this morning and the die is in the mail. I'm sure it will come back in great condition.

FYI, another thread recommended testing the die hardness with a file. I ran file across the outside it was indeed hardened.

 

[Changeling]

I've seen some dirty ammo run through dies in my life but NEVER did it leave scratches like you have! That's a problem for Mr. Whidden to fix. Surprised it ever left his shop like that, maybe an apprentice made that die.

 

[Patch700]

Good to hear that you sent the die back... One thing to watch for when using die wax is contamination... I had a problem similar to your some time ago forming Rem BR Brass into 22 cheetah , what it turned out to be was I had not been careful enough keeping both my hands clean and keeping the wax container sealed when not in use.. It scratched the cases 360 degrees around just like yours...

Generally if there is one small deficiency in the die running verticle that should not cause scratches all around the entire case.

Do let us know how this turns out for you.

 

[Iowa Fox]

It almost looks like one of the first ones you sized didn't have enough lube and it galled leaving some brass stuck to the wall of the die which will cause bad scratching and eventually get worse. I polish the inside of my dies with simichrome paste with a wadded rag on an old brush. I chuck it in a drill and spin for a short time. Then I clean it out and check with a bore scope. You can take a toothpick and feel the surface by inserting it in the body area and drag it very lightly and you should be able to feel any roughness.

Kind of my thoughts also as I've had it happen to me. After cleaning and polishing the die I put sizing die wax on a fresh paper towel wad on a split wooden dowel and run it up into the die on a drill before sizing a piece of brass. That put an end to any scratching for me.

 

[Shynloco]

Kind of my thoughts also as I've had it happen to me. After cleaning and polishing the die I put sizing die wax on a fresh paper towel wad on a split wooden dowel and run it up into the die on a drill before sizing a piece of brass. That put an end to any scratching for me.

I believe it's great that some reloaders have their own home grown methods that they believe help or cures what ails a new die or reloading tool. But lets be honest here...we pay a pretty penny for our die(s) no matter who makes them. And it is INCUMBENT and EXPECTED that these die makers (no matter their name) get their products right when put on the market. Reality tells us that there are times that doesn't happen and many of us have experienced that less than expected quality. But that has never stopped me from contacting the manufacturer and they've always made good for their product's shortcomings. Irritating yes. But those problems do occur even with some of the finished better know rifle products that come off an assembly line, just like cars. I'm a strong believer in keeping all these manufacturers honest and reminding them to keep an open eye on "quality control" so they minimize the bobo's that are going to happen. People are human and prone to error. All we ask is not to make a habit of it, especially with the products we buy from them. And hopefully those periodic reminders will help them as much as we want perfection is all that we buy from them. So do us all a favor and remind those companies we seek nothing more than what we paid for, and nothing short of that.

Alex

 

[jonbearman]

I believe it's great that some reloaders have their own home grown methods that they believe help or cures what ails a new die or reloading tool. But lets be honest here...we pay a pretty penny for our die(s) no matter who makes them. And it is INCUMBENT and EXPECTED that these die makers (no matter their name) get their products right when put on the market. Reality tells us that there are times that doesn't happen and many of us have experienced that less than expected quality. But that has never stopped me from contacting the manufacturer and they've always made good for their product's shortcomings. Irritating yes. But those problems do occur even with some of the finished better know rifle products that come off an assembly line, just like cars. I'm a strong believer in keeping all these manufacturers honest and reminding them to keep an open eye on "quality control" so they minimize the bobo's that are going to happen. People are human and prone to error. All we ask is not to make a habit of it, especially with the products we buy from them. And hopefully those periodic reminders will help them as much as we want perfection is all that we buy from them. So do us all a favor and remind those companies we seek nothing more than what we paid for, and nothing short of that.

Alex

My home grown fix as you call it is when we make a mistake not when the die is made incorrectly. I have worked on dies at Eastman Kodak that cost over 1 million dollars and if it is one thing I know is how to polish a die without ruining it. I had a redding that was bored and never reamed and it had to go back in which case they just replaced it in less than a week which I call excellent service. I am in no way saying fix a die that was made improper from day one and I agree shynloco that if its the case it should go back for repair or replacement.

 

[waldo1979]

Woodworking has taught me that even the highest quality of tool often requires some refinement. Unfortunately in this case i just don't have the equipment needed to remove rough tooling marks from the inside of the die. I'll let the manufacture do it.

Never had this problem with the Forster, Redding, Lee or RCBS dies that I own. It happens, it's part of the game.

 

[Webster]

Upon further inspect there are some tooling marks on the inspect of the

I don't think this is the case. Upon further inspection there are some marks inside the die that look like they're left over from manufacuring. I tried polishing with BJ bore paste and some steel wheel. The dies a bit shinner but is still leaving scratched.

Also, I'm not sure it's related but it's taking two passes to properly bump the shoulders.

I polished steel and many other metals for inspection on a microscope. Steel wool is a very poor abrasive to polish steel. It might remove copper. You want fine sandpaper or something with fine hard abrasive particles on a cotton buffer pad. If it's a small amount of copper or a few high spots of steel I would use 400 or 600 wet use sandpaper with oil on it. The oil helps carry away debris and keeps the sandpaper from loading up. It will remove very little metal on steel , especially if it's hardened. It should look like polishing. A few scratches on the die should be OK as long as they don't create a raised burr. The cartridge case is not affected by the microscopic low scratches.

 

[waldo1979]

FYI, Whidden received my die and the manager of the die production called me. He said that likely the scratches were caused by sizing the base by greater than 0.003". They've shipped me a new die just to be sure. The manager mentioned that if needed they would prorate the cost of the die towards a custom die that better match my chamber.

Overall excellent customer service. A+