New Berger 108's win Shippensburg Ground Hog Match

[dreever]

Yesterday I shot the new 108's in Shippensburg's monthly Ground Hog Match. Conditions were a bit rough with switchy, gusting winds in the 5-10 MPH range and some very heavy mirage at all yardages being particularly bad at 300 and 500 meters. In fact at 500 meters you couldn't see the scoring rings on the target let alone bullet holes. After you sort of got a sight setting on the metal swingers you were blind on the record target.
We started at 200 meters where I dropped a point from the git go when a gust took a shot out of the ten ring, giving me a score 0f 49.
Next stage at 300 meters in some nasty mirage I was lucky enough to score a fifty putting them all in the ten ring. Which is no mean feat at Shippensburg even in good conditions.
Then at 500 meters, where it's never over "Till the fat lady sings" I put three shots touching on the metal gong sighter and immediately went to the record feeling my three clicks right windage from 300 meters was still good to go at 500. I preceded to shoot my five record shots pausing between shots three and five waiting for my condition to return. As I said you couldn't even see the scoring rings due to heavy mirage so I just held center of the white bull for each shot.
As you can see by the enclosed photo the group was about 1.5 inches left of where I'd have liked it to be, perhaps a bit more wind came up, or more likely the difference between shooting the metal gong to set windage and elevation, and then moving to a different type of target for the record. This can bite you everytime at Shippensburg. I managed a 41 score and a real nice 1.509 group considering the conditions.
My total score was a 140 out of a possible 150 which was good enough for first place in Heavy Custom class for the day.
This was the 108's initial baptism by fire so to speak and they came through with flying colors.


Danny

 

[ConnorExum]

So what is the bc of the new 108?

 

[AckleyImproved]

What case was pushing the 108 to victory.. a Dasher???

Cheers
AI

 

[Forum Boss]

I just got off the phone with Danny. He was shooting a std 6BR, .269" neck, with a medium to warm load of Varget. He had the 108s .015" into the lands.

---

Danny, as I said on the phone--Congrats!

It's great to see a new product perform in competition consistently with your testing. A 1.509" group is pretty darn impressive at 500 meters,547 yards). Well-done!

 

[dreever]

Thanks Paul again for the call and congratulations.
Yes, I'm sorry I didn't include the information, my caliber of choice is the standard 6BR with a .269 neck. Sometimes I think about the 6 or 6.5X47 but then I have to ask myself . Why?
I pretty much love the 6BR.

Connor, As far as I know Berger hasn't published a B.C. as of yet, but I can tell you this. The 108's shoot to almost the same P.O.I. as my usual Berger 105 grain VLD load so the B.C. must be at or over .525 in my estimation. I'm sure Eric or Michelle will let us know soon what their measured B.C. is.

Danny

 

[jb1000br]

Sweet Congrats Danny

JB

 

[dreever]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Lynn, yep, there is some kind of Mojo attached to those orange shirts, or perhaps it's the Ground Hog giving everyone the razz-berries! Keep wearing it!

Danny

 

[ConnorExum]

Thanks Paul again for the call and congratulations.
Yes, I'm sorry I didn't include the information, my caliber of choice is the standard 6BR with a .269 neck. Sometimes I think about the 6 or 6.5X47 but then I have to ask myself . Why?
I pretty much love the 6BR.

Connor, As far as I know Berger hasn't published a B.C. as of yet, but I can tell you this. The 108's shoot to almost the same P.O.I. as my usual Berger 105 grain VLD load so the B.C. must be at or over .525 in my estimation. I'm sure Eric or Michelle will let us know soon what their measured B.C. is.

Danny

I checked the website they don't even have a listing for them yet? Are they phasing out the 105's in favor of the 108's I wonder? Or is this just increase in product line. What sort of velocities are you getting because if the velocity is lower but the POI is identical to the lighter 105VLD's there should be a modest increase in BC...

 

[EricStecker]

Danny,

Congratulations on some fine shooting. Bullets are a part of the story but success comes from skill and hard work. Good job putting a combination together that you know well.

All,

We did not calculate the BC for the test bullets because we did not want to slant opinion toward the bullet with the highest BC,since the designs are identical the 108 gr has the highest BC). We sent out every 108 gr bullet we made so I don't have any bullets with which we can calculate BC.

I have pushed a small run into the schedule. This will allow us to calculate the BC. Once this is known we will publish it on the forums. I can relay that it will likely be between the 6mm 105 gr BT and 6mm 105 gr VLD but closer to the VLD.

Regards,
Eric

 

[EricStecker]

"I checked the website they don't even have a listing for them yet? Are they phasing out the 105's in favor of the 108's I wonder?"

Connor,

We were waiting for the results from the test before we put the bullet on our website. We are not webmasters so getting our website updated is a bit involved. You will see the 108 gr BT on the website shortly after we calculate the BC.

Regarding the fate of the 6mm 105 gr BT, until recently all but a few of our heavy bullets are the VLD design. We believe this design to be superior when it comes to drop and drift. We have known for some time that the VLD can be more sensitive but since we,Walt and I) are short range benchrest shooters we believe that developing loads and tweaking for best performance is a normal part of shooting so we had no intentions of making heavy non-VLD bullets.

Over the last couple of years we have been thoroughly exposed to High Power shooting mostly through Shawn McKenna and lately through Michelle Gallagher. I have come to understand that many shooters do not develop their loads. ,Shawn has been telling me this for a while)

Many shooters simply get a recommendation from a buddy or a forum and then load hundreds of rounds without testing the load. This makes it very hard for the VLD to be successful since the VLD typically requires some adjustment to find the load that shoots the best.

Because of this situation we made the decision to produce heavy non-VLD in every caliber,6mm is the first). The current 6mm 105 gr BT is simply our 6mm 90 gr BT made longer,longer BT also). It does not have a tangent ogive shape that produces the best drop and drift performance in that weight category. This is why we made a new design resulting in the 108 gr BT.

We WILL NOT discontinue the current 6mm 105 gr BT until sales drop to the point where it is clear that it should be dropped from the line. In fact, Norma is using the 6mm 105 gr BT in their match ammo which recently broke a record and dominated over Lapua's loaded ammo offering.

Their are many shooters who have found that the current 6mm 105 gr BT is very successful. My prediction is that the new 6mm 108 gr BT will outperform the current 6mm 105 gr BT leading to shooters switching away from the 105 gr BT.

Let me be very clear. We WILL NOT discontinue the current 6mm 105 gr BT unless sales drop to a very low amount. In addition, should the day come when the 6mm 105 gr BT is discontinued we, as always, will make any discontinued bullets in runs of 10,000 or more. If you have any questions about this program call Shawn McKenna at 714-447-5425 to get the details.

Regards,
Eric

 

[ConnorExum]

"I checked the website they don't even have a listing for them yet? Are they phasing out the 105's in favor of the 108's I wonder?"

Connor,

We were waiting for the results from the test before we put the bullet on our website. We are not webmasters so getting our website updated is a bit involved. You will see the 108 gr BT on the website shortly after we calculate the BC.

Regarding the fate of the 6mm 105 gr BT, until recently all but a few of our heavy bullets are the VLD design. We believe this design to be superior when it comes to drop and drift. We have known for some time that the VLD can be more sensitive but since we,Walt and I) are short range benchrest shooters we believe that developing loads and tweaking for best performance is a normal part of shooting so we had no intentions of making heavy non-VLD bullets.

Over the last couple of years we have been thoroughly exposed to High Power shooting mostly through Shawn McKenna and lately through Michelle Gallagher. I have come to understand that many shooters do not develop their loads. ,Shawn has been telling me this for a while)

Many shooters simply get a recommendation from a buddy or a forum and then load hundreds of rounds without testing the load. This makes it very hard for the VLD to be successful since the VLD typically requires some adjustment to find the load that shoots the best.

Because of this situation we made the decision to produce heavy non-VLD in every caliber,6mm is the first). The current 6mm 105 gr BT is simply our 6mm 90 gr BT made longer,longer BT also). It does not have a tangent ogive shape that produces the best drop and drift performance in that weight category. This is why we made a new design resulting in the 108 gr BT.

We WILL NOT discontinue the current 6mm 105 gr BT until sales drop to the point where it is clear that it should be dropped from the line. In fact, Norma is using the 6mm 105 gr BT in their match ammo which recently broke a record and dominated over Lapua's loaded ammo offering.

Their are many shooters who have found that the current 6mm 105 gr BT is very successful. My prediction is that the new 6mm 108 gr BT will outperform the current 6mm 105 gr BT leading to shooters switching away from the 105 gr BT.

Let me be very clear. We WILL NOT discontinue the current 6mm 105 gr BT unless sales drop to a very low amount. In addition, should the day come when the 6mm 105 gr BT is discontinued we, as always, will make any discontinued bullets in runs of 10,000 or more. If you have any questions about this program call Shawn McKenna at 714-447-5425 to get the details.

Regards,
Eric

To be honest I thought the 105 and 108 were actually in the same class of bullet design that being a VLD. I was unaware that the 108 was merely a low drag BT design for shooters who wish to gain VLD like performance without the necessary perperation that is required for the performance gains of the VLD... However, since reading another post by another member of your corporation I see that 105 and 108 are totally different designs; there, it would appear that 105 and 108 can happily co-exist in the bullet line up.

Thanks for answering.

Connor

 

[ConnorExum]

Berger VLD Shooters
If you have never shot the 105 BT Match you should honestly give it a try.I have always been a diehard high bc fan but your not really giving up that much.
I have yet to try the 108's but if they shoot like the 105 BT or better they will dominate the 600 yard competitions in my humble opinion.
Lynn

So you don't use the 105VLD?