New at reloading need opinion

[dellet]

This hurts my brain.
How does that happen?

Not sure I understand the question.

My own thoughts and many other people, was that it was more of a bolt face, firing pin issue. Not so much excessive pressure. I shoot a lot of less than 30,000 psi loads with large magnum rifle primers, it doesn’t take much for them to crater. Rounded corners, not protruding out of the case head are a contradiction to high pressure. A medium pressure loads with too little headspace will look a lot like those photos. To me a primer is a clue but not an absolute. If the primer protrudes, it might be too much headspace, but still not enough pressure to drive the case back and reset the primer. Bottom line if I can duplicate that primer with other issues, I discount it as a sole reason. The primer is a distraction.

Small imprint of the ejector hole, not much more help. What was velocity might be another clue of a hot load.

Think about an ejector swipe with an AR. Use a standard small rifle primer, a 40,000 psi load and an oversized gas port. Post a photo of the case head and primer, 99% of the replies will be drop the powder charge and use a magnum primer. The problem is over gassing. Not a thing to do with pressure.

The key thing missing and what made diagnosing a crap shoot was incomplete load data and the source for it. One thing new guys have to learn is with out load data, it’s not even remotely possible to make an educated guess. Here the answer is probably simply bullet length. One of the most basic errors one can make substituting components. 4 days and 100 posts before we know exactly what bullet was working, and I still had to guess which bullet was substituted for it.

Bullet, brass, charge weight and powder some sort of loaded length reference. Someone is going to run it and get an idea of pressure. Answer in a few hours.

The smoking gun was completely ignored and the real slap in your face clue. Post #5. Low end load of 4350 according to Hornady data and heavy bolt lift. I don’t care what your primer and brass look like, heavy bolt lift will rarely be any thing other than over pressure. We didn’t get to see a primer from the 4340 load. But two loads. Both in theory well below max pressure showing signs.

One last reason the primer lied, why they can’t be depended on. It can’t do anything but lie when shot in any of the creedmore cartridges. Why use a primer that you expect to see signs of pressure in the high 50,000 psi cartridges, in a 62,000 psi cartridge, and surprised when it show pressure in a near max load?

The primer lies. What else can it do?

 

[jelenko]

Not sure I understand the question.

My own thoughts and many other people, was that it was more of a bolt face, firing pin issue. Not so much excessive pressure. I shoot a lot of less than 30,000 psi loads with large magnum rifle primers, it doesn’t take much for them to crater. Rounded corners, not protruding out of the case head are a contradiction to high pressure. A medium pressure loads with too little headspace will look a lot like those photos. To me a primer is a clue but not an absolute. If the primer protrudes, it might be too much headspace, but still not enough pressure to drive the case back and reset the primer. Bottom line if I can duplicate that primer with other issues, I discount it as a sole reason. The primer is a distraction.

Small imprint of the ejector hole, not much more help. What was velocity might be another clue of a hot load.

Think about an ejector swipe with an AR. Use a standard small rifle primer, a 40,000 psi load and an oversized gas port. Post a photo of the case head and primer, 99% of the replies will be drop the powder charge and use a magnum primer. The problem is over gassing. Not a thing to do with pressure.

The key thing missing and what made diagnosing a crap shoot was incomplete load data and the source for it. One thing new guys have to learn is with out load data, it’s not even remotely possible to make an educated guess. Here the answer is probably simply bullet length. One of the most basic errors one can make substituting components. 4 days and 100 posts before we know exactly what bullet was working, and I still had to guess which bullet was substituted for it.

Bullet, brass, charge weight and powder some sort of loaded length reference. Someone is going to run it and get an idea of pressure. Answer in a few hours.

The smoking gun was completely ignored and the real slap in your face clue. Post #5. Low end load of 4350 according to Hornady data and heavy bolt lift. I don’t care what your primer and brass look like, heavy bolt lift will rarely be any thing other than over pressure. We didn’t get to see a primer from the 4340 load. But two loads. Both in theory well below max pressure showing signs.

One last reason the primer lied, why they can’t be depended on. It can’t do anything but lie when shot in any of the creedmore cartridges. Why use a primer that you expect to see signs of pressure in the high 50,000 psi cartridges, in a 62,000 psi cartridge, and surprised when it show pressure in a near max load?

The primer lies. What else can it do?

Phew!
I misunderstood. I was taking your comment that the there was high pressure but the primer was lying because it had nice rounded edges [ie., not showing pressure sign].

Thanks for taking the time to compose a thorough answer [to what must have sounded like a dumb question].

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Ok lets hear it. What's the deal with Alpha brass?

it's harder than most other brass brands and is sometimes smaller at the 0.200 line and can create problems like this since it doesn't want to grab the chamber walls

 

[bozo699]

it's harder than most other brass brands and is sometimes smaller at the 0.200 line and can create problems like this since it doesn't want to grab the chamber walls

Hence why serious competitors use Lapua
Wayne

 

[David Milisock]

Only one thing……. It’s not Lapua
Wayne

Well that's like saying Wheaties are not Cheerios!

I'm a hunter I don't wildcat nor compete, my use of brass is to buy few hundred rounds of the same lot factory loads, shoot factory as a control, I load the empties, load that brass. As the brass ages I buy a few boxes of same lot factory and replace aging brass. I get decades of use out of brass.

My varmint rifles shoot 1 1/16" and 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards ans so does my 358 Norma Magnum. I'm not sure that Lapua brass will change that, I may be wrong.

 

[David Milisock]

it's harder than most other brass brands and is sometimes smaller at the 0.200 line and can create problems like this since it doesn't want to grab the chamber walls

That's has to be some hard brass assuming that we're talking 62,000+ PSI.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

That's has to be some hard brass assuming that we're talking 62,000+ PSI.

alpha is very hard

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Hence why serious competitors use Lapua
Wayne

i wouldn't say that, alpha is damn good brass, but what i would say is dumb issues like this is why Lapua is the gold standard

 

[Kracken McGraw]

i wouldn't say that, alpha is damn good brass, but what i would say is dumb issues like this is why Lapua is the gold standard

Didn’t the 6BRA guys also decide that you needed an Alpha reamer if you wanted to make their brass work in that cartridge.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Didn’t the 6BRA guys also decide that you needed an Alpha reamer if you wanted to make their brass work in that cartridge.

dasher for sure, not sure about 6bra. its a really dumb issue that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[bozo699]

i wouldn't say that, alpha is damn good brass, but what i would say is dumb issues like this is why Lapua is the gold standard

Exactly so why bother with it!… buy Lapua and be done with it. Incidentally Braxton I visited the OP on the phone and he was great to visit with, he has some gun knowledge he’s willing to invest in his hobby and he has the drive and interest so He’s gonna do fine and will be a asset to our community.
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Well that's like saying Wheaties are not Cheerios!

I'm a hunter I don't wildcat nor compete, my use of brass is to buy few hundred rounds of the same lot factory loads, shoot factory as a control, I load the empties, load that brass. As the brass ages I buy a few boxes of same lot factory and replace aging brass. I get decades of use out of brass.

My varmint rifles shoot 1 1/16" and 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards ans so does my 358 Norma Magnum. I'm not sure that Lapua brass will change that, I may be wrong.

Well you are correct wheaties are not cheerios you have nice shooting varmint rifles , I think you would see improvement with Lapua but probably not enough to warrant the investment. Happy hunting my friend.
Wayne

 

[edix]

I'll load some h4350 up and get some heavy bolt lift again. I'll remember pictures this time. At 38gr I got 2698.

 

[muleystalker]

Hammer recommends no closer than 0.020 off the rifle lands. This could be part of your pressure/velocity issue. Also I don't see your powder in their data?

This Stated above. Also remember Hammer bullets are mono bullets.... you can not compare them to ELD-X or any other cup and core bullets, they are a completely different animal when reloading. You can not just use load data for a 130gr cup and core bullet and just use it for monos, especially load lengths. You have to remember monos are not as dense as lead so in a given weight built say 130gr for example, the mono bullet is going to be longer that a cup and core bullet so at the same OAL the mono bullet is going to be seated down deeper into the powder column and can cause more pressure. Depending on the design monos can have more bearing surface than the same weight cup and core also which can cause more pressure. Im sure the Remington action has some to do with your primers but not the ejector marks.

You might want to contact Hammer bullets and ask them if they have a a starting load for that setup.

 

[64Rambler]

Didn’t the 6BRA guys also decide that you needed an Alpha reamer if you wanted to make their brass work in that cartridge.

I run Alpha brass in my non-Alpha reamed 6BRA and had heavy lift issues until I got a Harrells die - made all the difference. The Wilson die I was using resulted in a case with more tapered body than the chamber was cut for. The Harrells die is easier to size with compared to the Wilson. I also have Lapua brass and the Wilson did the same thing with those cases. I get smaller groups with the Alpha over the Lapua, except when fire forming.

 

[David Milisock]

Well you are correct wheaties are not cheerios you have nice shooting varmint rifles , I think you would see improvement with Lapua but probably not enough to warrant the investment. Happy hunting my friend.
Wayne

I agree the investment in money and time may be more than I'm willing to do. I never compete except with varmints!