New at reloading need opinion

[std7mag]

Big assumption that the bullet needs help to get engraved.

Really??
Most of the mono bullet manufacturers recommend to start with a jump of 0.05".

Why do you think that is?

 

[edix]

Thanks again everyone for responding. No i have not had any work done on the bolt. Never knew bushing was a thing. Factory loads the primers look very normal when shot. I don't understand how that would change just because of a hand load and a low powder load as well. Could I just have bad brass as well? This is new Alpha brass never shot. Even after resizing it does not fit. I do have this measuring tool not 100% sure if needed but again. I throw money at problems sometimes even if unnecessary.

 

[David Milisock]

Well that has been mentioned in post numbers 3, 9, 10, 15, 29, 31 and 32.

Well yes but the primers don't reflect an out of tune bolt. The ejector mark and the burnish marks on the case head seem to indicate the the bolt is not true to the case head.

I would assume that if the bolt was trued up that the pin bushing would jut be done at that time even though me and others have never needed that done even at 65,000 PSI.

 

[std7mag]

Question for you. Since more jump equals less internal case volume, which equals higher pressure, at what point is more jump a wash concerning pressure? I used COAL numbers back when I began reloading, circa 1970. What with all the different styles of bullets I think that tells me nothing. I am probably wrong.

If it was a pistol cartridge were talking about, absolutely I would worry about reducing the case volume by shortening the COAL.

But, since it's a ridle cartridge using much slower burning powder, the difference of 0.04" seating depth isn't that much of an issue.

At most you're looking at maybe 500-1,000 psi.
If you're that close to the ragged edge, you need to come down in powder charge anyway.

 

[Tommie]

OP's factory ammo does not crater, and i doubt they are using harder primers than a cci450 (what the OP was cratering)

Maybe. Maybe not. I’m not being argumentative. Really the primers look pretty darn rounded for an over-pressure situation. JMO.

 

[Webster]

Really??
Most of the mono bullet manufacturers recommend to start with a jump of 0.05".

Why do you think that is?

Don't really know. Common sense would tell you that traveling 22" down barrel would engrave a bullet. I would like to hear an explanation of what goes wrong if you don't have about 50 thou jump. Maybe for safety reasons they want to make sure the bullet doesn't stick in the barrel if you extract a round.

 

[Webster]

Really??
Most of the mono bullet manufacturers recommend to start with a jump of 0.05".

Why do you think that is?

I see nothing on the Hammer Bullet website about needing about 0.050" jump.
Below from the Hammer website.

Load Development​

A reputable ammunition loading manual should be consulted for load development using a particular powder. Always follow good loading practices outlined in your loading manual. Our PDR design will tend to have less pressure due to less bearing surface contact with the bore. We recommend looking for a powder showing fairly low load density for similar weight bullets, so as not to run into compressed loads. We also recommend using a magnum primer to start ignition more quickly in order to seal the chamber as the bullet enters the bore. As new highly efficient cartridges are entering the market, the use of standard large rifle primers has often proven to work better. Use of a chronograph to watch muzzle velocity compared to similar weight bullet velocity listed in loading manual will aid in load development. Muzzle velocity exceeding max load velocity listed for similar weight bullets in loading manual should be approached with caution. Muzzle velocity is an indication of pressure. Always watch for known pressure indicators such as heavy bolt lift or ejector marks on brass as well. We have found that Hammer Bullets® are not sensitive to seating depth. Seating to mag length for repeating rifles or just off the lands will generally work very well without need to adjust for better accuracy. Load development should be easy. Find your seating depth, choose your powder and primer, use start load data and work up your load to desired velocity, sight it in, and have fun hitting it with a Hammer.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Maybe. Maybe not. I’m not being argumentative. Really the primers look pretty darn rounded for an over-pressure situation. JMO.

i 100% agree with you.

I think there is something to be learned here with all of this. i told him to try the peterson brass and see if the issue goes away. I personally think the issue is the alpha brass being to small/hard to properly expand at the 0.200 line for his chamber.

 

[Ringostar]

Nobody has asked about primer size on the factory loads? I know that you’re using small rifle on your loads, but if the factory loaded ammo is large rifle that can explain the difference on cratering. I have an unbushed 700 that has no issue with large primers, but if I use small primer brass I get cratered primers. This could explain why you don’t see this with the factory loads. I’ve never tried machined bullets, so can’t offer anything on them.

 

[bozo699]

Primers are a poor way to look for pressure signs. However the ejector swipe is a pretty good indicator but the real way to tell if your over pressure is to measure the base of the case. You should see no more than .0005 expansion at the web.
Std7mag has a lot of experience with monolithic bullets, if I wanted to use them he would be the guy on this forum I would contact. I’m not a alpha fan like everyone else is but no matter if it’s not the monolithic bullets causing the problem I would check neck clearance in the chamber, if that’s good I would buy some Lapua Brass and see if the problem goes away I think you will find you have to tight of neck
Wayne

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Lots of comments... Do you have a set of go / no-go gauges? Your chamber may be long. There's another thread here talking about primers that look like yours may be the result of oversizing or too long a chamber.
Do you get the same result with the "box Hornady"? How much are you resizing the case? (Difference in CBTS from fired). You mention hitting the lands at 2.749, but box Hornady is 2.800 -- that sounds to me like OAL measurements. If you're still acquiring tools, you'll need a headspace and bullet comparators. This will give you a much better idea of how much you're sizing and where your bullets are contacting the lands - different bullets have different shapes and can vary wildly on where they touch the lands even with the same OAL.
Tell us more.

That was my first thought. Second is that 555 is a double base powder and will give higher pressure than say, H4350. With those lighter bullets, you should also try Varget - start at 38.5g and work up final load will be around 40g. (I shoot 39.5 in my 6.5 Creed with 123g Lapua) But there's no substitute for measurement.

 

[64Rambler]

OP's factory ammo does not crater, and i doubt they are using harder primers than a cci450 (what the OP was cratering)

That's why I asked the question about factory ammo. I don't disagree that bushing the pin is a good idea, but it sounded to me like he's bumping too much.

 

[std7mag]

@Webster,
The length of the barrel has zero to do with engraving the rifling into the bullet.
The engraving is done as the bullet enters the rifling.
The rest of the length builds the velocity and exerts the spin into the bullets travel.

I haven't had the chance to do any work with the Hammer bullets. For monos I use Cutting Edge and Warner Tool Co.
And I've loaded Barnes for friends and family.
So my .05" reference is from loading them.

Wanna really blow your mind??

I found that putting a taper crimp on the cartridge mouth helps with mono bullets.
I know, contradictory to what almost any match shooter would do, but it helps with the mono bullets.
Theory is that the crimp helps hold the bullet that little bit of extra time to allow pressure to build more. Allowing a faster push for the mono to engrave when it enters the rifling.

 

[64Rambler]

So dumb question time are the brass safe to reuse with ejector marks?
Should I stop reloading "willy nilly" until I get some more tools?

Based on the still rounded edge of the primer, your brass is still safe. If your primer pockets won't hold a new primer of takes very little effort to seat, then you may have a brass issue.
Deprime your cratered, fired rounds and see if you can rechamber the brass without any bolt resistance.
Don't stop reloading, but so ask a lot of questions, as mentioned, find a mentor, perhaps someone at the range you shoot at. Or even youtube. Erik does a great job of showing how to set up a sizing die. There are other ways as well, but this one will tell you the size of YOUR chamber, then come back an additional 0.002".

Once you have brass that fits without resistance, you can find the touch point on the lands by this method which is the same thing, just extended to the bullet instead of the shoulder:

.

 

[dellet]

Maybe a quick look at the basics.

Where did the load data come from?

What bullet was used in the factory load?

This is something often over looked, the changing of components. It’s a bigger problem changing from jacketed to monolithic. Typically copper weighs 80% of lead, then add in the bullet design, pressure grooves and profile, a copper bullet of the same weight as a cup and core will be significantly longer.

In the case of the OP, he has already Used an overall length shorter than factory. If he used book data for a similar weight bullet and listed COL his seated depth will be off significantly due to a much longer bullet. Add in a possibly short jump, and high pressure is almost a given.

Knowing complete data or as much as possible about both loads is needed. Starting at the basics is always best.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I use case gages/ammo checkers, especially for gas operated guns. But I check brass after sizing, before loading and than after loading. Helps narrow down where problems are occurring, eliminates surprises at the range or out hunting(ammo not chambering correctly).

 

[edix]

That was my first thought. Second is that 555 is a double base powder and will give higher pressure than say, H4350. With those lighter bullets, you should also try Varget - start at 38.5g and work up final load will be around 40g. (I shoot 39.5 in my 6.5 Creed with

You seated the bullet out farther to relieve pressure? How about backing off on the powder charge. Your slow to catch on.

I'm not slow to catch on. However in a "sport" where all information contradicts each other its hard to grasp what the actual issue is. And when I mean all information contradicts I mean all. So yeah maybe I am a little slow because I don't know what the exact issue is bud. I can tell you one thing once I get something I got it. However should a person be seeing pressure with what I call a relatively low powder charge? Yeah sure you don't think a person has not tried backing off the powder? I don't see the issue with lower powder charge of course. However then I'm in 2600fps range. I might as well load subs then and fix my issue for sure and not learn as I go.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I did my first rebarrel of a rifle and made it a 25 creed. I have only been reloading for about the past 2 months after slowly acquiring the necessary equipment. I keep running into pressure issues it seems at lower velocity then others. I have been using N555 the last 2 times out. 40gr at coal 2.738 using 127 hammer bulletsat 2710fps. With this bullet I hit lands at 2.749 from what I measure. Although box hornady load fine and they are 2.800 anyways. At 40 gr of 555 I start seeing markings on the brass. Is this something to worry about or do I need to back off? It looks like the ejector is striking I have many more questions but only because I have nobody to ask. Haha
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edix:

There is a big difference between the cup & core bullets (copper cup with lead core) VERSUS a monolithic bullet (solid copper)!!!! You CAN NOT USE RELOADING CHARTS designed for core/cup bullets for reloading solid copper bullets!!! The solid copper bullet requires much more compression (force) to engrave the bullet and the bearing surface (the area rifling leaves its imprint on the length of the bullet) is much longer requiring even more force for full engraving!!! The lead core deforms much easier than the solid copper bullets!!! Plus, the friction in the barrel will also be much higher!!! Compare the sectional densities!!!

YOU WILL HAVE TO CLEAN THE BARREL SOONER AND MORE OFTEN WITH SOLID COPPER BULLETS!!! ESPECIALLY, THE REALLY LONG BEARING SURFACE BULLETS!!! TOO MUCH COPPER BUILD UP IN THE BORE CAN ALSO CAUSE PRESSURE SPIKES!!!!

That 127grain 25 caliber bullet has a lot of bearing surface!!! This is why you have the high pressure signs (primer crater, extruder imprint, heavy bolt lift and probably heavy recoil compared to the factory loads, which you have not noted)!!! Plus, the CCI 450 magnum primer has a hotter flash to ignite the slower magnum powders!!! Your N555 is a fast burning powder and would prefer the standand or BR in the CCI lineup!!!

You are experiencing very high pressure!!! Even though the small rifle primers are not flattened, you still have cratering!! WHY???????? The CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer cup is 20% thicker on the walls than the standard CCI 400!!! 0.025" vs 0.020"!!!!! Plus the much heavier radius in the cup wall to base transition will be bigger!!! This explains why the primers are not flat from over pressure!!!

p (pressure) = F (Force) ÷ a (unit area), or F = p x a!!!!!
The small flash hole will exert less force on the primer than the larger flash hole with the pressure being the same on both flash holes!!! Another reason why the primers were not flattened!!!!

 

[bozo699]

Edix,
What is your chambers neck diameter?
What does a loaded round measure?
Wayne

 

[rdremsek]

I did my first rebarrel of a rifle and made it a 25 creed. I have only been reloading for about the past 2 months after slowly acquiring the necessary equipment. I keep running into pressure issues it seems at lower velocity then others. I have been using N555 the last 2 times out. 40gr at coal 2.738 using 127 hammer bulletsat 2710fps. With this bullet I hit lands at 2.749 from what I measure. Although box hornady load fine and they are 2.800 anyways. At 40 gr of 555 I start seeing markings on the brass. Is this something to worry about or do I need to back off? It looks like the ejector is striking I have many more questions but only because I have nobody to ask. Haha
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