new 223 brass or once fired?

[Dgd6mm]

Thank you guys for the replies, I appreciate it
With new LC hard to find, what brand of new 223 brass is recommended?

Starline 5.56 or .223

 

[Dgd6mm]

Arm and Ally has once fired L.C.

 

[dantiff2]

Haven't seen any LC in stock with them, just commercial.

 

[David Milisock]

Nope. 5.56 AR chamber

Thanks for the reply, I have thousands of once fired XM LC both 193 and 855 I can't remember losing one. I bought 1,000 Malaysian military (there M193) never lost a one.

I know the X is a reject but I still haven't lost any.

 

[David Milisock]

I believe some of that military stuff is really pushing the boundary's due to pressure. I've picked up LC brass off the ground (at my local range) that still has the primer crimp in place, indicating it was never reloaded that showed an extreme protrusion into the ejector hole (ejector swipe) and darn near had the case rim ripped off where the extractor claw is. The only other thing I can think of would be someone using it in an AR pistol configuration with super short gas system. That still would not account for the head swipe pressures.

They did up the pressure, original 5.56 was 52,000 PSI, then the upped it for the M855 to 60,000 I think now the M855A1 is 62,300 I believe.

It also could be the variations is build quality of the rifles/pistols. I have a factory built Colt A2 in 5.56 and a factory built, Aero Precision M4E1 in 6MM ARC, zero issues.

The A2 does not really like M193 or am855 but shoots 69 grain match well. The ARC is just awsome.

 

[dantiff2]

I guess I'm lucky that I got 10K .223 LC brass from Graf's a few years ago. They don't seem to sell it any more.

I hope you didn't remove the crimp with a handheld reamer! : O

 

[jepp2]

Thanks for the reply,

The once fired I purchased from Brass Bombers had the one particular batch that was really showing pressure signs. Most of the rest I bought from them was not an issue, just lost a few. Really bad case head flow into the ejector opening.

I shot several cases of XM193 LC headstamp, and a case of IMI. I could tell the difference on hand depriming if the ammo was fired above 40 degrees or below. Since a good bit of it was destined to become 20P brass, I just saved it for winter firing.

I scrounge brass at the range and find quite a bit of LC headstamp. I often find loose primer pockets on it (first firing, primers still crimped), so I know others experience it as well.

 

[jepp2]

I hope you didn't remove the crimp with a handheld reamer! : O

Wasn't primed or crimped. I bought some from them also. Really nice brass.

 

[Metal God]

Rebs , you having issues with the brass I sent you ? One thing I can guarantee is that it was once fired but you know that because you had to remove the primer pocket crimp . I don’t remember how many I sent you (1500 I think ) the vast majority of those will have been fire by the military or LEO out of standard M4 or M16 chambers . There may be some in there that was fired in a SAW but not guaranteed to have been and if so not many % wise . I can’t or shouldn’t tell you how I know this but I can say I’m as sure as one can be of what is stated above .

I will add that when I get large same head stamps lots like that , those cases were fired on the same day pulled from the same pallet of ammo . Meaning likely loaded at same time with the same lot number . I can’t guarantee that but it is more likely than not .

That all said , it is once fired LC brass and I’ve found that the first sizing should be done with a small base die . This generally makes subsequent loadings more consistent.

 

[Rsadams]

The once fired I purchased from Brass Bombers had the one particular batch that was really showing pressure signs. Most of the rest I bought from them was not an issue, just lost a few. Really bad case head flow into the ejector opening.

I shot several cases of XM193 LC headstamp, and a case of IMI. I could tell the difference on hand depriming if the ammo was fired above 40 degrees or below. Since a good bit of it was destined to become 20P brass, I just saved it for winter firing.

I scrounge brass at the range and find quite a bit of LC headstamp. I often find loose primer pockets on it (first firing, primers still crimped), so I know others experience it as well.

Omg I did the same with .223 and 9mm from brass bombers.... Ordered a bunch when I first got started and it is the reason I am a case prep station fan after doing hundreds of crimp removals by hand... I had actually forgotten about them.... I do remember the owner got hurt and shut down the business.... They used to have a large selection of military brass for sure....

 

[dantiff2]

^^^ Brass Bombers were excellent people to buy from.

 

[David Milisock]

The once fired I purchased from Brass Bombers had the one particular batch that was really showing pressure signs. Most of the rest I bought from them was not an issue, just lost a few. Really bad case head flow into the ejector opening.

I shot several cases of XM193 LC headstamp, and a case of IMI. I could tell the difference on hand depriming if the ammo was fired above 40 degrees or below. Since a good bit of it was destined to become 20P brass, I just saved it for winter firing.

I scrounge brass at the range and find quite a bit of LC headstamp. I often find loose primer pockets on it (first firing, primers still crimped), so I know others experience it as well.

I wonder if it's something in the different builds? I'm seeing reports of the 6MM ARC with fractured bolts and many times after prying for answers you see variations in the builds that are affecting the timing and gas, again which affects the timing.

I've said this many times the AR market is buyer beware. Does not mean this is the case here the X does mean rejected.

 

[dantiff2]

I wonder if it's something in the different builds? I'm seeing reports of the 6MM ARC with fractured bolts and many times after prying for answers you see variations in the builds that are affecting the timing and gas, again which affects the timing.

I've said this many times the AR market is buyer beware. Does not mean this is the case here the X does mean rejected.

Ejector swipe should not have anything to do with an AR or external build factors, other than maybe a suppressor. The extractor or rim condition can and will be timing dependent but ejector swipe is too high of internal pressures. Unless maybe its a small bore? Regardless of if the weapon has a solid barrel or one with a gas port hole for an automated reloading setup. You should not see those kinds of pressures exerted on the case head that it's flowing material away from the base.

 

[David Milisock]

Ejector swipe should not have anything to do with an AR or external build factors, other than maybe a suppressor. The extractor or rim condition can and will be timing dependent but ejector swipe is too high of internal pressures. Unless maybe its a small bore? Regardless of if the weapon has a solid barrel or one with a gas port hole for an automated reloading setup. You should not see those kinds of pressures exerted on the case head that it's flowing material away from the base.

Like I said the X means rejected, maybe the pressure was the reason for the rejection being that tolerances being out of contract specifications but ok for sale.

Now add that to an overly tight build and maybe you get pressure.

 

[dantiff2]

Like I said the X means rejected, maybe the pressure was the reason for the rejection being that tolerances being out of contract specifications but ok for sale.

Now add that to an overly tight build and maybe you get pressure.

Yeah, anything is possible. I’ve seen some narley pictures from the past couple of years posted on different shooing forums being labeled as covid era ammo that is destroying guns and is obviously way over pressure. Even from the big brands that we all know and trust. Lots of blown out primers and case head expansions. I’d be surprised if they sold the X ammo to the public knowing it could be over pressure though. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[David Milisock]

Yeah, anything is possible. I’ve seen some narley pictures from the past couple of years posted on different shooing forums being labeled as covid era ammo that is destroying guns and is obviously way over pressure. Even from the big brands that we all know and trust. Lots of blown out primers and case head expansions. I’d be surprised if they sold the X ammo to the public knowing it could be over pressure though. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That would be expensive to prove, they'd have their test data and the plaintiff's having to pay for testing to go against them. Then the ammo manufacturer bringing up the lack of control in the rifle building process. Seems like a winner for the ammo guys!

 

[Jester560]

For bulk ammo, I get mine from Terminal Munitions. For low quantity, precision loadings, I get once fired PMC brass.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Haven't seen any LC in stock with them, just commercial.

I'm sorry. About a week ago they sent me a notice they had it in stock. They definitely are out now.

 

[Rich S]

I’d take a look at Starline. I’ve used once fired LC and new LC. I wouldn’t go back to used brass again. The new LC was good. I got a certificate Starline donated to a shoot. I ended up getting some 223 Starline brass with it. I’ve stuck with Starline and haven’t looked back. All the Starline brass I have has been pretty consistent and has yielded good results to 600 in varmint guns. I’ve not shot a match but have shot Fclass targets at 600 with respectable results.

 

[rebs]

Rebs , you having issues with the brass I sent you ? One thing I can guarantee is that it was once fired but you know that because you had to remove the primer pocket crimp . I don’t remember how many I sent you (1500 I think ) the vast majority of those will have been fire by the military or LEO out of standard M4 or M16 chambers . There may be some in there that was fired in a SAW but not guaranteed to have been and if so not many % wise . I can’t or shouldn’t tell you how I know this but I can say I’m as sure as one can be of what is stated above .

I will add that when I get large same head stamps lots like that , those cases were fired on the same day pulled from the same pallet of ammo . Meaning likely loaded at same time with the same lot number . I can’t guarantee that but it is more likely than not .

That all said , it is once fired LC brass and I’ve found that the first sizing should be done with a small base die . This generally makes subsequent loadings more consistent.

I am having no problem at all with the brass you sent me and greatly appreciate you sending it to me. I was curious as to what others are using. I have some brand new never loaded LC and it don't shoot any better than the once fired you sent me.