NEW 12.5-50x56 S&B Target Scope

[rstreich]

I'd be surprised if S&B could MATCH a NF for +$1000.
Name one thing they can do better without giving up more. Afterall, nothing is free.
34mm rings?
30moa?
Even HEAVIER than NF,which is too heavy)?
FFP? Get serious.

Even at pretty much the same price, their hunting scopes exceed NightForce in terms of optical quality. If you want something closer to a head-to-head comparison, you'd have to compare the PM-IIs to NightForce. I think they start in the >$2k range and from what I've read, I don't think NightForce would compare very favorably. I've never owned a PM-II so I can't relate personal experience, only what I've read. I'm not knocking NightForce. I just think the S&B is in a different category altogether. It's certainly in a different price bracket.

Whether someone thinks the difference is worth the extra $1000 depends on their perception of value. You can find plenty of people who will argue that their Burris is every bit as good as a NightForce. Is that really true? No. It just means that they've decided that what they'd gain isn't worth the extra money to them.

Feature comparison and prioritization is another aspect. For example, your list of features to compare is much different from mine. I have two primary criteria: To see as clearly as possible down range and to count on the crosshairs being in the same position each time. Windage adjustments and ring sizes are way down the list in terms of importance.

Finally, you have pure personal preference. One of the birding reviews of spotting scopes said it best: Once you reach a certain level, it becomes stictly a matter of what you prefer to look at. I've spent all day switching back and forth between a Swarovski 6-24 and an S&B 4-16. Both were new to me and, in the beginning, I preferred the Swarovski for its adjustable turrets and the extra power. But, as the day wore on, I decided that I really preferred looking through the S&B. Do the same with another person and they'd just as likely say that they felt they'd rather look through the Swarovski.

Whether the S&B will be a better scope than the NightForce or not doesn't really matter all that much to me. I'd just be happy to have another choice. There's already some competition springing up with the March scope, but that's coming a bit out of left field. S&B would pose a better threat to NightForce I think and that would likely benefit us greatly.

 

[mikecr]

In the PDF the "Adjustment range" is stated as 32MOA. Windage is not listed. Atleast that the way it appears to me.

Regardless of price, the scope is in no bracket other than different, until it meets the needs of shooters atleast as well as NF. If it can do this, all of it, with something better, then great. But there are alot of performance factors to shape into a winner. Price, weight, ease & quality of mounting, glass, repeatability & lack of 'settle', practical click adjustments,1/8, 1/4) & zero setting, precision reticle/SFP, side focus, plenty of eyepiece focus & relief.
If even one feature is not suited well for the current users of NF, S&B will just end up praising themselves when the 'smoke' clears..

 

[jb1000br]

32MOA of elevation... :,

 

[Forum Boss]

Re the $2600 figure.

The big side-wheel is optional. That allows the airgun Field-Target shooters to use the parallax control for rangefinding. You can mark particularly distances on the big wheel and then, when the image is sharp, that tells you how far away you are.

I don't see a centerfire shooter, working at known distances, needing,or wanting) the big wheel. Likewise, most F-Class or BR shooters don't need/want illumination. So acc. to S&B, that should put the "basic" scope at the 1700 Euro level, about $2200.

But the real questions remain--is the construction of the scope such that it can be used by a centerfire gun. And, can the parallax control be made suitable for longer distances than 70 meters. The opinions are mixed.

 

[Asa_Yam]

Likewise, most F-Class or BR shooters don't need/want illumination.

I forgot to mention that another reason for the 56mm objective is for hunting in low light or nighttime. For target shooting, a large diameter objective succeeds in adding weight. If you're using the scope at lower magnification, the 56mm objective is really overkill, and probably only shows its true utility above 45x.

But the real questions remain--is the construction of the scope such that it can be used by a centerfire gun.

Most quality airgun scopes do quite well when mounted atop a centerfire rifle.

 

[243Mendoza]

One must also remember that the low value of the dollar is making the S&B scope expensive. Not too many years ago, the dollar and Euro were on par. If the Euro and dollar were on par, the S&B scope would cost less than a NF NXS!

 

[Forum Boss]

Asa,

Remember that, given conventional optics design, you need a large front objective to have a reasonable-size exit pupil with high magnification. The Weaver T-36 is down to about 1.16 mm with 36-power and a 40mm objective. Go much smaller than that and the "circle of light" is too tiny and difficult to pick up--something you notice immediately with a "boosted" 45x T-36. At 50 power the S&B has a 1.18 mm exit pupil. With a 40mm objective that would be much smaller. There is no 'free lunch' unfortunately when you're talking magification. The 12-42x Nightforce also has a 56mm objective.

 

[Forum Boss]

UPDATE: 1/25/2007

I just had a chance to speak at length with the S&B folks. Good news and bad news.

1. Yes, S&B has received many, many requests to adapt the scope for centerfire use. I was told "that's under development right now."

2. The main item requiring change seems to be the 7m to 70m parallax adjustment. S&B believes durability is sufficient right now. I was told "the toughest challenge ANY scope will face is being placed on an air rifle. The hard work has been done with this scope already. IF we decide to sell another version, you could shoot it on a 50 bmg no problem."

3. Re Parallax, I noted that my optics designer friends said this should be an easy fix--as simple as repositioning the front objective by a mm or less. The S&B rep confirmed this: "Yes, parallax control for longer ranges is not a problem. It's an extremely easy thing to correct--the only question would be what the close focus limit would be."

4. PRICE. The rep stressed that NO decision has been made to bring out a centerfire version of the scope... yet. But he said "the demand appears to be there, and we've done all the hard work." I mentioned the Press Release with the 1700 Euro,$2200 US Price). He said: "It will HAVE to cost more in the USA, given the tariffs and some other things. Probably $2700-$2800 MSRP."

5. ACTION PLAN: So... the ball is in your court folks. I got the distinct sense that: a) There are no major technical hurdles that will prevent this scope being used for long-range centerfire use,and it appears S&B is already checking into that); b) If the DEMAND is THERE, S&B will build it and export it.

I was told, "Keep in mind S&B only sells 1000 scopes a year or so in the USA, so if we sold a couple hundred of these that would be significant."

CONCLUSION: If you want to buy a 10-50x56 S&B, call and write S&B and tell them. Link:

In the U.S.:
Schmidt & Bender, Inc. | http://www.schmidtbender.com
P.O. Box 134
438 Willow Brook Road
Meriden, NH 03770
U.S.A.
,800) 468-3450 toll free
,603) 469-3471 fax
scopes@cyberportal.net

In Europe:
Schmidt & Bender GmbH & Co. Kg
Am Grossacker 42
D-35444 Biebertal
Germany
+49 64 098 1150 tel
+49 64 098 11511 fax
info@schmidt-bender.de

 

[Hoser]

Anyone know of any updates?