Never trust factory ammo!

[Ledd Slinger]

This is a perfect example of why I will NEVER trust factory ammo.

I bought a bunch of Winchester ammo for my AR-47 in 7.62x39 to break the barrel in and harvest the brass for hand loading. The 20 round boxes of “Target & Practice” 123gr FMJ ammo from Winchester are actually made by PPU over in Serbia. They have a large rifle primer, PPU brass, and actually shoot really good, producing sub MOA five shot groups at 100 yards in my 7.62x39 AR15 upper.

So…I decided, I’ll buy a bunch of the 120 round bulk packs and once those are shot up, I’ll use the brass to reload. Finally broke open one of the bulk packs to inspect the ammo (since stores don’t want you opening ammo boxes before purchasing and ammo sales are non-returnable). And to my surprise, it’s not even close to the same ammunition! Both are Winchester “Target & Practice” with the 123gr FMJ. But the Winchester ammo has a different bullet shape with cannelure ring, has a SMALL rifle primer, and Winchester brass…I would assume different powder as well. What the heck??? The ONLY difference on the boxes is the bulk pack says “Made in the USA”. Guess that should have rung a bell in my head.

So no idea if the 120 round bulk pack ammo shoots the same as the 20 round boxes. Gonna go find out today. Fingers crossed, but hopes aren’t very high. I do actually prefer the small rifle primer in the Winchester brand brass so that’s probably what I will use to hand load

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Last year I bought a couple different packs of sig sauer ammo. Picture on box has black bullet with yellow tip with nickel cases.

I wanted these specific colors as it's for my nieces and that is their school colors....

First box they come brass with copper bullet and green tip. Returned them.

Order straight from sig sauer. Buy 8 boxes get two free with free shipping.... so I order a whole case. Comes brass with copper and green tip bullet.

I contact them and finally after a run around they call. They explain they are the same components but they can't get the colors due to whatever reason and they will no longer offer that color. I tell them then they need to change the advertising picture on their website...."oh that is still up?"

Ultimately I forced to speak to management and they did allow me to return them and refund me.


Here's their picture on the website today...a year later.... for which they say they will never produce this color combo again.... still falsely advertising

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I went out and confirmed accuracy and point of impact with both ammo types by shooting 20 rounds each (Four groups of 5 shots each). 1 set of groups fired at 135 yards, and 3 sets of groups at 110 yards.

The Winchester “PPU” Serbian ammo shot as usual with 5 rounds sub MOA. Suprisingly, the Winchester “American Made” ammo shot with similar accuracy AND same point of impact! I was happy to see that. The American ammo wasn’t quite as accurate as the Serbian PPU ammo, but I would run either ammo with confidence.

I have no idea if this is a testament to Winchester ammo (and associate manufacturers that make ammo for them) or a testament to the quality of my AR upper and barrel, or perhaps just the forgiveness of the 7.62x39 cartridge design. This is my first rifle of any kind in 7.62x39 so not a lot of experience there. But this thing is such a pleasure to shoot! Fast, accurate, and packs a real punch for such a small round

 

[std7mag]

@Ledd Slinger,

Even though you may like the small primer better, PPU makes really good brass!!

Personally, I would use the PPU cases before the Winchester cases.

 

[K22]

I figured this out over 50 years ago, if I want a consistent source of ammo for precision shooting, I need to reload and just as important, learn the essential reloading processes for producing safe, reliable and consistent reloads.

While I've witnessed some tremendously excellent groups shot with factory ammo (Federal Premium) at the range, the problem most users compliant about is the ability to obtain a consistent supply of that specific ammo and of course costs.

If you're just blasting away at steel plates at our range at 100 and 200 yards, I don't think the inconsistency in factory ammo matters but if you trying to hit a 2 to 2 1/2" vital area at 300 yards, it makes a huge difference.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I figured this out over 50 years ago, if I want a consistent source of ammo for precision shooting, I need to reload and just as important, learn the essential reloading processes for producing safe, reliable and consistent reloads.

While I've witnessed some tremendously excellent groups shot with factory ammo (Federal Premium) at the range, the problem most users compliant about is the ability to obtain a consistent supply of that specific ammo and of course costs.

If you're just blasting away at steel plates at our range at 100 and 200 yards, I don't think the inconsistency in factory ammo matters but if you trying to hit a 2 to 2 1/2" vital area at 300 yards, it makes a huge difference.

Yeah inconsistency in factory ammo is what pushed me into hand loading over 20 years ago…and it seems not much has changed.

However, in today’s market with the price of brass, bullets, powder, and primers, it makes more sense to me that I buy cheaper 7.62x39 ammo for $0.80 per round to use for barrel break in and plinking. I really don’t care how accurate the factory ammo is at this point, but it’s nice that it is actually pretty accurate. Later after I’ve shot up the ammo, I will use that brass for hand loading to get better accuracy and consistency. But for now the factory ammo sub MOA accuracy is more than adequate for a battle rifle, and any hunting rifle for that matter

 

[bozo699]

Ledd slinger,
Glad the Winchester wasn’t a disappointment to ya.
Wayne

 

[Griffiga]

I while back I was shooting my 7-08 with Hornady Super performance factory loads and after a few shots I felt blowback in my face. I had to strike the bolt hard to open it and the shell was stuck. I was able to clear it by pounding on a cleaning rod. Upon inspection, the force of the high pressure broke the extractor, flattened the head and blew out the primer pocket.

 

[Thud]

Got more popcorn

 

[BuffaloBill]

I while back I was shooting my 7-08 with Hornady Super performance factory loads and after a few shots I felt blowback in my face. I had to strike the bolt hard to open it and the shell was stuck. I was able to clear it by pounding on a cleaning rod. Upon inspection, the force of the high pressure broke the extractor, flattened the head and blew out the primer pocket.

Many years ago when the Tikka T3 hit the stores, I bought one in 7mm-08. I bought a box of Remington ammo for sight-in. About 1/3rd of the way through that 20 round box, like you, I felt blowback in my face. The bolt opened with more difficulty than normal. Gas blew out around the primer and if I remember correctly, there was evidence of brass flow on the case head. This is the only time (thus far…) in 45yrs+ of shooting and reloading center fire that I’ve experienced this. I still have the remainder of that box of ammo. I never shot any more of that box. I always wondered if an insect crawled in the bore or if it was a Remington ammo defect. I should pull bullets on the remaining rounds and see what those charges weigh.

 

[Griffiga]

Many years ago when the Tikka T3 hit the stores, I bought one on 7mm-08. I bought a box of Remington ammo for sight-in. About 1/3rd of the way through that 20 round box, like you, I felt blowback in my face. The bolt opened with more difficulty than normal. Gas blew out around the primer and if I remember correctly, there was evidence of brass flow on the case head. This is the only time (thus far…) in 45yrs+ of shooting and reloading center fire that I’ve experienced this. I still have the remainder of that box of ammo. I never shot any more of that box. I always wondered if an insect crawled in the bore or if it was a Remington ammo defect. I should pull bullets on the remaining rounds and see what those charges weigh.

You described my experience exactly. I didn't shoot any of the rest of the shells, and after I had the bolt repaired, I ended up getting rid of the rifle as I was a bit gun leery of it and often wondered if it could have been the gun. The gun I had was a Savage Light Weight Hunter.

 

[FNSafari]

I went out and confirmed accuracy and point of impact with both ammo types by shooting 20 rounds each (Four groups of 5 shots each). 1 set of groups fired at 135 yards, and 3 sets of groups at 110 yards.

The Winchester “PPU” Serbian ammo shot as usual with 5 rounds sub MOA. Suprisingly, the Winchester “American Made” ammo shot with similar accuracy AND same point of impact! I was happy to see that. The American ammo wasn’t quite as accurate as the Serbian PPU ammo, but I would run either ammo with confidence.

I have no idea if this is a testament to Winchester ammo (and associate manufacturers that make ammo for them) or a testament to the quality of my AR upper and barrel, or perhaps just the forgiveness of the 7.62x39 cartridge design. This is my first rifle of any kind in 7.62x39 so not a lot of experience there. But this thing is such a pleasure to shoot! Fast, accurate, and packs a real punch for such a small round

Pull the bullets and measure their bearing surface. Wonder if they are the same or different?

 

[Doug Casner]

I worked ffor remington and winchester over the years at lake city . I thought remington had better quality control. Scrap can slip by in mass production For remington we didnt have to run as many machines so the quality was better. I thought. Looks like that ppu has a waterproof primer. Must be military. Doug

 

[GotRDid]

Last year I bought a couple different packs of sig sauer ammo. Picture on box has black bullet with yellow tip with nickel cases.

I wanted these specific colors as it's for my nieces and that is their school colors....

First box they come brass with copper bullet and green tip. Returned them.

Order straight from sig sauer. Buy 8 boxes get two free with free shipping.... so I order a whole case. Comes brass with copper and green tip bullet.

I contact them and finally after a run around they call. They explain they are the same components but they can't get the colors due to whatever reason and they will no longer offer that color. I tell them then they need to change the advertising picture on their website...."oh that is still up?"

Ultimately I forced to speak to management and they did allow me to return them and refund me.


Here's their picture on the website today...a year later.... for which they say they will never produce this color combo again.... still falsely advertising

View attachment 1563907

If you load for .243/6MM, or .308 caliber cartridges, perhaps check these component bullets out to build some ammo (inert perhaps?) for show?

https://ctrk.klclick.com/l/01JRATD3RT30XE7HCDA9HCMNJF_11


https://ctrk.klclick.com/l/01JRATD3RT30XE7HCDA9HCMNJF_15



Can buy as little as 100, so not egregiously expensive.

 

[Skattergun]

just blew a primer in hornady factory 7mm prc during a test fire yesterday, previous rounds were fine no pressure signs. just the way it goes with cheaper ammo i guess

 

[snert]

What is this "factory ammunition" of which you speak? Don't rightly recall that stuff since I was 14