NEO owners: front bag fill

[Jay Christopherson]

I've been shooting on my NEO (F-Class) for about a year now. I originally filled the front, 3-piece bag system with heavy sand, because that's what I had. Over time, the sand has packed in pretty hard and there is a nice, flat groove where my stock rides.

However, I've been thinking about it and I wonder if maybe that's not a mistake. I use a switch action setup, using the same stock. One action is a light recoiling 6 Dasher, that I free recoil. The other is a somewhat heavier recoiling .260AI. The Dasher shoots great on the bag setup I have. The .260AI is a little tougher to control- I definitely see some vertical flyers that I have a hard time explaining. I feel like the rock hard front bag could be contributing, maybe by not absorbing any of the energy of the recoil/torque. No doubt, the Nut behind the Butt has some issues to work out, but I wonder if the front bags being so rock hard (even though they are grooved for my stock now) are making my life harder with a harder recoiling, higher torquing round.

At any rate, I'm wondering what other owners have experienced or are doing with regards to the front bags. Heavy sand? Lighter fill? Are you breaking up the packed in sand periodically? This is just one of those things that bug you until when things aren't working like you expect. If I can set my mind right and eliminate it as a potential issue (or identify it as such), I can move on.

 

[nosualc]

I use a NEO for my 6BRX (F-Class). Mine is packed packed pretty tight with heavy sand. It has flattened on top of the bottom bag.

Slight shoulder pressure to pin the stock to the front stop works better for me than free recoil. It tracks very well, and and shoots fantastically. Also, it seems to prefer the side bags to be pretty tight on the edges.

Of course, a 6BRX doesn't recoil any more than your dasher. Previously I shot a 6.5x284 and it tracked pretty well too, but didn't shoot as well as the 6BRX (the comparison in my case is apples to oranges).

I'm curious to see what others have to say on the topic.

-nosualc

 

[FergusBailey]

I have been shooting a NEO for around 6 months, after shooting a Farley for 8 years. I am shooting it only in 100/200 yard BR matches, so there may be some differences there in how we sut up our equipment and what we expect from it.

I must say I have been very impressed with the NEO. I use the standard 3 piece front bag, and filled it so that the bag appears full, but I can easily press down with a finger and move a little of the filling aside. I used Black Beauty sandblasting grit which is a black non-metallic sand recommended by the late Dave Dohrman. The granules are not really fine and it doesn’t pack down on itself like some sands. I also make a point of lightly “massaging” the bag to keep the sand from packing down, and do this each match when I am setting up my bench if I remember.

I do get very occasional unexplained flyers, but do not think it is the bag set up. Unfortunately there are about 20 causes of these flyers, and the bags are just one possible cause. I shot three “teen” groups in a row at 100 yards in the first match were I used the NEO, and it has shot very well for me since I made the switch over to it.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

That's interesting that you use a filler that doesn't pack as heavily. I don't really think that fliers will magically disappear or anything, I'm just looking to remove one possible factor from the equation.

I have been shooting a NEO for around 6 months, after shooting a Farley for 8 years. I am shooting it only in 100/200 yard BR matches, so there may be some differences there in how we sut up our equipment and what we expect from it.

I must say I have been very impressed with the NEO. I use the standard 3 piece front bag, and filled it so that the bag appears full, but I can easily press down with a finger and move a little of the filling aside. I used Black Beauty sandblasting grit which is a black non-metallic sand recommended by the late Dave Dohrman. The granules are not really fine and it doesn’t pack down on itself like some sands. I also make a point of lightly “massaging” the bag to keep the sand from packing down, and do this each match when I am setting up my bench if I remember.

I do get very occasional unexplained flyers, but do not think it is the bag set up. Unfortunately there are about 20 causes of these flyers, and the bags are just one possible cause. I shot three “teen” groups in a row at 100 yards in the first match were I used the NEO, and it has shot very well for me since I made the switch over to it.

 

[nonliberal]

I have been using the NEO for over a year and love it. My side bags are pretty firm, but I don't have the main bag filled that tight. I used half heavy sand and half play sand so the different sizes in grit don't compact as easy. Someone (i think it was Mike Ratigan) adds some bird seed in his front bag so it won't compact. I massage the bag each day before I place the rifle in the bag.
After placing the rifle in the bag I look through the scope and slide the rifle back and fourth until the Xhair stops dropping as the stock settles into the bag. Once you can place the X hair on target, slide the stock back and return it to the front stop, and the X hair returns to your aiming mark, its ready to shoot.

Your results may vary, but it works for me.

 

[seb]

Dear Jay,

I think Fergus, Nonliberal, & Nosualc have given you good inputs.

Re: NEO front bags.
First, I'm not an expert in anyway. In fact I shoot BR only when visiting/shooting overseas. However you may take my 'advise' here as I'm the maker and probably the only one that really knows each aspect/each item in the NEO rest, including the bags.
Do not overfill the bottom bag! Moderate hardness (not too soft, not too hard) is what you need. You may fully fill the side bags (i.e. hard) anyway, as it's almost has no affect on your groups/scores, but the bottom bag.
If your bottom bag is too hard & your stock is very stiff, you'll find that your reticle will vibrate/move when dry firing. (this assuming your reticle does not move/vibrate when you dry firing your gun by offhand).
Try it!
The bags must 'absorb' the vibration of the gun firing to some degree. You cannot shoot good when your gun rides on a hard surface / front fulcrum, period.
Fergus has a good point - there are 20 causes or more for fliers.
First, try to reduce the sand on your front bags....try on the bottom bag, then on the side bags.
Personally I prefer my crosshair to not move or vibrates when dry firing my gun, because that's something like 'doubling' to me. (Other shooters may disagree with this/with me, but it works for me).
For that, first I make sure that my front bag is not over packed or too hard. I found that any sands or combinations work on my bags, as long as it's not over packed/too hard. I make sure that my rear bag sits on the bench top steadily, push/tap the outer sides of the bag onto the bench top, no dirts on the bottom etc. I have a habit to tap down my rear stock on the rear bag and check if my reticle does not move (at all) when dry firing, sliding the gun back & forth and check if my crosshair goes into the same spot - every time (or at least very close), also to check if my stock/gun tracks vertically prefect when sliding the gun back and forth. That's all before I start to shoot. Rest setup & attention to details is important. I don't tap my gun on the front bag anyway, only to make sure that the stock sits & rides OK on the bags, not creep, not 'walking' etc.

Re: sand become hard & bag has 'flat groove' under sometime of use
I will do the same thing as Fergus & Nonliberal, i.e. to massage the bag.

Again Jay, I do not shoot much, but my rests really helped me/my poor shooting! For an occasional 'shooter' like me, placed top 10 in the two guns 100/200yds at Harry Madden C/ship last Nov 2011, 7th in the LG - Australian National 500M Flyshoot & a 49.3 for the first string my first 1,000 yds match last March 2012 in Canberra - were not too bad. (I could probably 'win' my first 1,000 yds match if I didn't have a mixed brass & powder weights by accident).
My point is, I'm not 'that good', or that the rest 'is that good', but with a rest that suits your shooting style you'll get good/better result! Many proofs on this matter.

I thanks you guys for using the NEO rest for your shooting needs! It's a pride enjoy for me.

seb.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Thanks guys, good advice all around. I'm going to remove some sand from the bottom bag and "massage" it as it packs down to keep it a little softer. We'll see how it goes from there.

 

[seb]

I'm anxious to know your findings.

seb.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Well, I'm shooting a match this Sunday, so I'll be sure to let you know how it works out.

 

[nosualc]

Interesting feedback seb. I'm going to try removing a little bit of sand from my bottom bag, as my reticle does hop a little bit when I dry fire. The rifle/rest combination has been shooting very well, but every little bit helps. I'll give it a whirl!

Thanks for building a great product. There are few times when a product (even a premium product such as the NEO) meets and exceeds expectations. Your rest is one of them.

-nosualc

 

[RJinTexas]

When I first purchased my NEO and got use to using a joy stick rest I loved it. But as time went on I noticed my groups started to grow. So I decided to take two of my rifles and compair group sizes shot on the same day under closely the same conditions using my NEO and my old Sinclair with a custom made windage top.

I shot five 5 shot groups from first my 30BR then my 6PPC off of both rest. What I found was that groups shot from my old Sinclair averaged .100 smaller for the 30BR and also averaged .060 smaller for my 6PPC.

I did notice that the bottom of the front bag on my NEO had become both hard packed and very flat . After reading this tread I plan on reducing sand and massaging the bag to make sure it not overly firm before repeating the test. I do find my NEO extremely handy especially when shooting for score and I'm hoping that once I get the front bag right my group sizes will start to shrink.

RJ

 

[noload]

I've been using the NEO for all this year. (7 matches) And I love it. I shoot 2 f-Class guns, 6br 300yd-600yds and a 7 Shehane 800-1000. I placed first in the last 2 matches. 300yd and a palma 8-9-1000, I also that the front bags are important to get right. What I do seems to go against the grain. I fill the bottom bag to the limit, to eliminate side gaps on the side bags ( both my guns have a short stock height on them.) I may be able to get away with this because I have a spring board F-Class McMillan stock. I also push down and cycle my gun on the front bags. I do find that the side bags should not be so tight as to hinder a easy recoil cycle. There may be something to massaging the bottom bag, I'll have to try it. I haven't figured out the vertical flyers yet, but I don't get enough of them to hurt my score that much. It could be caused by me or the rear bag.???

 

[tripcrow]

Try the fuzzy Velcro Industrial Tape on the bottom and side bags packed medium to hard. The side bags will still be able to adjust. I use it on the rear bag too. It makes for a very nice ride.

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