Need some help with getting my Dope for a 500 yard shot in 6.5 Creedmoor

[BarnDweller]

I have joined a fantastic range in Howell Michigan. They have a 500 yard range. For safety reasons they qualify anyone wanting to use the 300 and 500 yard ranges. I already belong to the club in Caro and they have a 300 yard range. I was there yesterday getting my 100 yard 0 and before I went I printed out the chart for my holds at 100 to 500 yards. I wanted to test my data at 300 yards.

I am shooting a Berger 140 grain Hybrid Target bullet # 26414. my mussel velocity I measured was 2649 Fps. The chart I got off their ballistic calculator told me to hold -4.53 MOA when I did that I missed the target I hit above the target. Once I saw I hit above I kept decreasing until I got on the target. I ended up at 4.0 for a impact on the center of the 16 inch steel target.

My problem is I cant practice on the 500 yard target and I am only allowed to miss once, the second miss is I am disqualified. I am new to longer distance shooting but I really want to do it. I need to have good data for the 500 yard shot but it seems to me if my 300 was off then the 500 will be off and I would guess it will be off more.

I played with Berger ballistic calculator and got it to give me 4.0 at 300 yards by raising the velocity but I had to lie to it and say it was going 2775 fps that is about 150 fps faster than I have measured it. After I did that it gave me -9.60 and the one I gave the true velocity gives me -10.76. I think I remember being told its a 30 inch steel target at 500 yards.

Does anyone have any experience with this? If I was not limited to 1 miss I would start at the lowest and work my way up. I really want to be able to shoot at their 300 and 500 yard ranges. Its perfect for me. At Howell I can drive down to the targets, have access to different distance targets at one shooting station. (I have enjoyed Caro but my health is getting worse so to walk all the way to the 300 and back, its not easy. Thank God I was alone yesterday so I did not have to make a bunch of people wait for me. Do not get me wrong I am not complaining about the Range in Howell, they have to be careful if some idiot puts a round out of the range they could loose the use of the range.

If anyone with some experience can give me some advice I would appreciate it a lot!

Delbert McCord

 

[TexasC]

For what it is worth, I would not dial up any more than 9 moa for 500yd with that bullet and velocity. I dial 10.0 to 10.5 moa on my .223 F T/R running Berger 85.5 at 2990 for my 600 yd zero, and that is supposed to be 2moa high because of the SHOTMARKER offset. Good luck, but better bet is to rerun your solver inputs something is amiss.
TexasC

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

You stated you held for 4.53 moa drop, what scope do you have? Why didn't you dial for the target distance?

 

[Kracken McGraw]

If it’s a 30 inch target, I bet you hit it. lol.
Use your new 300 yard dope.

 

[Fast14riot]

Make sure your scope height is correct and accurate in your drop calculator. Measure center of bore to center of scope. A higher sight height will "flatten" trajectory of longer distances. Also, use the zero offset if your POI is not dead on your POA. If you're impacting 1" below your point of aim at 100 yards, that must be factored into your long range dope.

Plus, now you have dope corrected for 2 yardages, play with velocity in your calculator until displayed matches actual dope, once you verify everything entered is correct.

 

[Fast14riot]

I plugged your info into Strelok Pro, it agrees that for 2650fps with an uncorrected 100y zero, 4.5moa up to 300. If I set the zero offset to 0.5" high at 100y, it corrects to 4.0moa at 300.

 

[BarnDweller]

You stated you held for 4.53 moa drop, what scope do you have? Why didn't you dial for the target distance?

I have a Vortex Strike Eagle 5x25x56 But that is going to change but not before I need to shoot this. My eyes just can not see the dot in the center of the scope and the Christmas tree is just to busy I need something simpler and that has something I can see in the middle!

 

[BarnDweller]

Make sure your scope height is correct and accurate in your drop calculator. Measure center of bore to center of scope. A higher sight height will "flatten" trajectory of longer distances. Also, use the zero offset if your POI is not dead on your POA. If you're impacting 1" below your point of aim at 100 yards, that must be factored into your long range dope.

Plus, now you have dope corrected for 2 yardages, play with velocity in your calculator until displayed matches actual dope, once you verify everything entered is correct.

I did that, I am going to check everything again. I used a tape measure to check the scope height. I am going to check it with my calipers now I messed up that measurement I thought it was how high the scope was over the gun. WOOPS went from 1.5 Inch to 2.44 inches. I re ran the stuff with the velocity I have in my reloading data there I have a average when working up the load of 2613 ( I was cold when I worked up that load, its very accurate so I want to stay with it using 40.7 grains of H4350 powder. Temp may be why it was faster when I shot yesterday.).

If I can get the time I will reload some more and go back to Caro to test them. I saved 8 rounds for my certification so I cant shoot them haha. I am blessed to have a small range behind my barn but its only 50 yards.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

 

[BarnDweller]

I did that, I am going to check everything again. I used a tape measure to check the scope height. I am going to check it with my calipers now I messed up that measurement I thought it was how high the scope was over the gun. WOOPS went from 1.5 Inch to 2.44 inches. I re ran the stuff with the velocity I have in my reloading data there I have a average when working up the load of 2613 ( I was cold when I worked up that load, its very accurate so I want to stay with it using 40.7 grains of H4350 powder. Temp may be why it was faster when I shot yesterday.).

If I can get the time I will reload some more and go back to Caro to test them. I saved 8 rounds for my certification so I cant shoot them haha. I am blessed to have a small range behind my barn but its only 50 yards.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

I forgot to tell you after I re ran it the numbers are
-4.08 MOA for 300 Yards
-10.35 MOA for 500 Yards

Why is it a negative number when I am adding it on the scope? I had another person reply that 10 is high but it may have to do with how much the bullet has slowed down. by the time it has traveled 500 Yards.

 

[JFrank]

Why is it a negative number when I am adding it on the scope?

to elevate the scope the crosshairs must go down.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Neg moa value, bullet is dropping below zero(reticle,poi intersection). Need to make correction(higher aim point or dial turrent up). Aim small.shot small for a true zero.

 

[Breakshunter]

Even if you’re off a fair bit you should be good to hit a 30” target. Do you just have to hit it anywhere!

 

[whatsupdoc]

A 30" steel target is not at all a difficult shot for a 6.5 creed at 500 yards.
First what ammo and rifle are you using as your velocity seems very low, the faster you
get that 140 Berger the easier the shot will be.

Your elevation correction with a 100 yard zero should be right about 10 MOA.
So if you you hold center target on a 30" steel plate provided the wind is not an issue its a 100% impact
provided the the guy squeezing the trigger is a competent shooter.

 

[6.5grendel]

In your original post you said the calculator told you to dial 4.53 moa and you missed the 16” steel plate. Then you ended up dialing 4.0 to get a center hit. Something there is not right at all. A .5 moa adjustment at 300 yards is only approximately 1.5”. You should have still been near the center of that plate at 4.5 moa.

The advice of the other guys that suggested 10 moa for 500 is easily going to put you on that 30” plate at 500 yards. Even if that correction is 2 moa off from what it should be you will still easily hit that plate, and that even accounts for a 1-2 moa group size.

I think you should shoot some groups at 300 with the 4.0 moa correction and see what your group size is and where the center of those groups impact compared to your point of aim. Then dial 4.5 moa correction and see where those groups impact compared to point of aim. If those 2 corrections are much more than 1.5 inches different then you have another issue going on. Possibly bad scope.

 

[BarnDweller]

A 30" steel target is not at all a difficult shot for a 6.5 creed at 500 yards.
First what ammo and rifle are you using as your velocity seems very low, the faster you
get that 140 Berger the easier the shot will be.

Your elevation correction with a 100 yard zero should be right about 10 MOA.
So if you you hold center target on a 30" steel plate provided the wind is not an issue its a 100% impact
provided the the guy squeezing the trigger is a competent shooter.

The ammo I am using are handloads
Brass is Lapua, neck turned, annealed, Case Neck brushed, Mandrel the necks, I remove any rounds with over 70 lbs. seating force (Use them to shoot steel at home I have a 50 yard range). I worked up the load when it was cooler. When I work up a load I buy a box of match ammo and shoot that and use it as my standard I was to get to how they shot or just a little batter. I am learning as far as shooting some days I have good groups, some days I do not. My Scope is a Vortex American Strike Eagle 5-25x56 I have a hell of a time seeing the reticle even zoomed all the way the dot is so tiny and everything around the dot does not give me anything I can see well to center the target on it. I have a 223 Savage Precision that I play with and it has a Arken scope on it and I am thinking of buying one of them for the 6.5 I can see that reticle much better. Hey I 67 so the eyes are not great anymore.

According to the Berger loading manual 40.7 is the max. I am shooting it out of a Ruger Precision Rifle, its one of the originals they came out with not the new ones. I purchased it just over 4 years ago and never had the chance to even take it out of the box until about 9 months ago. When my Son died 4 years ago I had to just walk away from my gun stuff. Went back to work and had to take on a 16 year old Grand Daughter. She is 20 now and yes I still help her (Pay her morgage only 2 more years and its paid for!, I have been able to not work a couple days a week now so I have some time to play now. The guns were kind of depressing at first, Steve and I used to shoot together sometimes. That was handguns so rifles did not bother me, I am not getting back into handguns. Doctor said I needed something to reduce my stress or I would be taking a dirt nap soon haha. This is what I enjoy. Its interesting and challenging to me at least. I am very blessed to have places like this forum to ask questions and so many good people take the time to share what they know for the new guy like myself. Thank You

Delbert McCord

 

[BarnDweller]

In your original post you said the calculator told you to dial 4.53 moa and you missed the 16” steel plate. Then you ended up dialing 4.0 to get a center hit. Something there is not right at all. A .5 moa adjustment at 300 yards is only approximately 1.5”. You should have still been near the center of that plate at 4.5 moa.

The advice of the other guys that suggested 10 moa for 500 is easily going to put you on that 30” plate at 500 yards. Even if that correction is 2 moa off from what it should be you will still easily hit that plate, and that even accounts for a 1-2 moa group size.

I think you should shoot some groups at 300 with the 4.0 moa correction and see what your group size is and where the center of those groups impact compared to your point of aim. Then dial 4.5 moa correction and see where those groups impact compared to point of aim. If those 2 corrections are much more than 1.5 inches different then you have another issue going on. Possibly bad scope.

I did shoot a 5 shot group at 300 yards when I was there. I used the 4.0 on the scope my group was 3.6 inches. I am at best an average shooter so lots of room for improvement there.

 

[BarnDweller]

Even if you’re off a fair bit you should be good to hit a 30” target. Do you just have to hit it anywhere!

Yes I believe that is the deal. I have to bring in a target to where I zeroed at 100 yards and I have that both are under an inch one is .81 and the other is .80 one is a 3 round group and one is a 5 round group. I did not remember what he wanted so I did both.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The Scope Ctr / Line, Height Measurement, over Bore, is Critical, as is, Elevation, Velocity, Temp, Bullet BC's, etc., when using, the BERGER Data ( Review, Everything,.. TWICE ! )
I input, Hornady Bullets ( 130 gr. M's and 143 gr ELD-X's ) with, NO issues for my 6.5 Creed and shoot 11" steel Plates to, 850 yards ( The MOA Data given, IS Pretty, CLOSE ! ). I use a 200 Yard Zero and Dial past, THAT.
Agree w/ You,.. Get, a Better Scope ! Mine are, PST VIPERS 6 x 24, Second Focal / MOA,.. w/ NO,.. Dot !
Test, the "Dialing" Data on, Targets to, SEE If, correct.
Zero at 200 yds, and "Dial" for 300,.. If, 300 Yds is, "On", the 500 Data, "should Be" also.

 

[ELR LVR]

if it were me...
I would find a place to shoot at 500 yds out somewhere on a buddies farm or BLM land.
When I create a DOPE chart for long range, I shoot at 3 different distances to make sure all adjustments of the scope coincide throughout the bullets trajectory range no matter what theoretial distance I might want to shoot.
----------------
Therefore, if you find a place to shoot 100, 300, 500, you can confirm your scope and adjustments to validate your drop chart.
This will help prevent you from getting called off the range

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I Do All my Final, "Load Testing" at 200 Yards ( and ZERO @ 200 ) and, I USE, 10 Shot, Group "Data" to, See IF,..
I Have, a Truly "Accurate" Load. AND,. a truly Accurate,.. "Zero" ! I Do this with both, my 6 XC and 6.5 Creed., Rifles.
100 Yd group's, and slightly "Off Center", Group's,.. "Can" sometimes,,. LIE !
A 1" group or, Better at, 200 yds for, 10 Shots, tells Me that, I have Two,.. Sub 1/2 MOA, Rifles