need some help. Primer issue...maybe?

[msu33]

I have been loading for my 257 wby. Its a custom job. Well, I am having problems with hang fires and no fires. Some rounds will go off as they should, but I am have a few no fires, and even more hang fires. Now, at first I thought that it was a bad box of primers....but I use the same primers in my 300 wsm....and no issues. I am using CCI BR2 primers. The action and bolt assembly are from Stiller. Is this a firing pin issue? Spring issue? Whats a good way for me to troubleshoot this?

Thanks

 

[jsn]

You didn't mention headspace. Are you sure it's good?

 

[timeout]

I agree, most likely a headspace issue.

 

[Hombre0321]

I had this same problem with my Benchrest Rifle, pain when it happens in a match. I also suspected it to be a headspace issue, and it was. Nothing wrong with the way the headspace was set. My problem was I was bumping my shoulders back to far when I resized the case. The fireing pin was pushing the case a wee bit to far into the chamber . All of my cases that would not fire had a fireing pin strike on them but a small and not deep enough to fire. I now set my die up with a feeler gauge to allow only a .001 bump. Problem solved.

RS

 

[msu33]

Thanks guys. Hombre, that makes sense to me for most cartridges. I guess I am having trouble understanding how that will affect the weatherby case, since it is double radius, and the forward edge of the case belt is what sets the headspace. Please enlighten me if you can, I am only 4 years into reloading and still have a lot to learn.

Also, later I will try to post pics of my rounds that dont fire. I would have thought the dent was deep enough to ingnite the primer.

I really hope its a headspace issue. For I have worked up a Sweet load for this rifle, and I would rather check all my loaded rounds and re work the over sized cases and not pull every round to replace primers.

 

[markm87]

Hangfires have been a primer/powder combo problem for me before. What is your powder???

 

[GermanS1]

It can be a headspace problem as has been mentioned, it can be a cold weather problem because the CCI BR2 is a fairly mild primer trying to ignite a fairly large load (try a Rem 9 1/2) and it can be a problem with improper seating of the primer.

If the primer isn't seated all the way, the pin will make a healthy dent in the cup but it won't fire. The pellet has to be hit very sharply and any failure to seat the primer all the way allows it to move forward on impact, thus softening the blow.

 

[msu33]

Powder is reloader 22.

All primers are seated properly, but I will double check. This is not a round I load in high volume. These are hunting rounds.

I hate to switch primers, as this load is shooting .25 inch groups at 100 yards. When you say BR2's are cold sensitive, how cold are we talking? Down here in alabama I have not seen temps below 27 all year.

 

[bozo699]

msu33,
That is a large volume of powder to be trying to ignite with a standard primer, RL-22 likes magnum powders, you can get by with the std. primers and H-4831 but not so much with RL-22, also after your first firing you should be setting your headspace off your shoulder to save brass life. Changing your primer will be the easiest change to see if it is your problem, my weatherby's like Federal 215M primers and RL-22
Wayne.

 

[msu33]

Thanks bozo. I am going to try the 215m primer. I talked to some other folks, and it has to be poor primer selection. I was going for consistency. Well, looks like I have some work to do after deer season is over.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks bozo. I am going to try the 215m primer. I talked to some other folks, and it has to be poor primer selection. I was going for consistency. Well, looks like I have some work to do after deer season is over.

215M's are match grade primers and have been very consistent for me, best of luck to you.
I do hope your not deer hunting with that rifle or at least with those loads, poor ignition could cause high pressures and be unsafe to use, just a thought.
Wayne.

 

[ebb]

I had a PGT bolt put in a rifle and the "gunsmith" used the firing pin and spring from the original bolt, it would not protrude far enough in the PGT bolt to fire the primers 100 % of the time. This sounds the same to me, check the pin to see how far it comes out from the bolt face. I belive it takes 35 thousands to fire a magnum primer, and you need to use a magnum primer. It is very frustrating to pay the price and have issues like these. I know i spent months and shot out a barrel trying to figure mine out with no help from the " gunsmith" who built it. Ebb

 

[bozo699]

Ebb could be right on the protrusion, it is easy to check,...pull the bolt and cam it over the firing pin will protrude and you can measure it, good call Ebb.
Wayne.

 

[msu33]

Ill measure the pin. But I am pretty sure it is primer powder combination. The bolt group is from stiller, not a carry over from another rifle. I have worked up other loads with different bullets using h1000 and 4831sc. Never had an issue with those igniting with the BR2.

No, not deer hunting with it. The plan was to hunt with it, but I wont take it to the woods because of the inconsistency. A hang fire is the difference between a clean kill, a complete miss, or a wounded deer. I always pull the shot on a hang fire.

 

[M-61]

I believe the .257 Weatherby is one belted magnum which uses the belt for headspace and not a sales gimmick. I don't see how shoulder 'Bumping" can alter headspace. I have used 215M primers for years without any problems. As others have stated it is a huge surface of powder to ignite uniformly. The double radius (r1+r2) shoulder is maybe the only 'gimmick' in this cartridge. I have found it to be highly accurate and about the flatest shooting cartridge you can find. Heat build up in a thin Weatherby barrel sort of limits groups to three shots. Barrel life and your hearing are both short. A fine cartridge from the late 1940's development and a great hunting cartridge.

 

[bozo699]

I believe the .257 Weatherby is one belted magnum which uses the belt for headspace and not a sales gimmick. I don't see how shoulder 'Bumping" can alter headspace. I have used 215M primers for years without any problems. As others have stated it is a huge surface of powder to ignite uniformly. The double radius (r1+r2) shoulder is maybe the only 'gimmick' in this cartridge. I have found it to be highly accurate and about the flatest shooting cartridge you can find. Heat build up in a thin Weatherby barrel sort of limits groups to three shots. Barrel life and your hearing are both short. A fine cartridge from the late 1940's development and a great hunting cartridge.

M-61
The .257 wby mag like all magnums with a belt, headspace off the belt, after the first firing though I headspace off the shoulder, it reduces working of the brass , also you can keep the HS uniform and consistent, not always true using the belt!
Wayne.

 

[queen_stick]

Are you sure you don't have case lube inside the case? It only takes a VERY small amount of lube to clump up the powder, and you'll get the exact conditions you described. Pull the bullet on one of the misfired cases... If any of the powder kernels are sticking to one another, or a clump of kernels, then that's the cause.

I bring this up, because I loaded for years without any problems. When I reached my first problem with misfires and hang fires, this was the cause. I spent hours messing with firing pin protrusion, headspace, and etc...

 

[danang]

Trade count...the belt is probably the problem. If you will resize your cases so they REALLY do headspace off of the shoulder and not the belt, you'll solve two problems. One: the misfires will go away. Two: your brass will stand many more reloadings before separating ahead of the belt. Don't use the belt as your guide. Use the shoulder. The belt came about as a sales gimmick for the British rifles going to Africa. No reloading there. Bump the shoulder about .001 to .002 and forget the belt. JMHO

 

[LIUNA]

I had a problem like yours, and took my rifle to Gunsmith and he said it was the primer I was using, and the primer was CCI. It has a harder surface. changed primers and fixed the problem.