redrockranger
Silver $$ Contributor
870 Remington, 26" barrel with choke tubes. You can shoot 1 0z loads to magnums. 20 or 12 ga.
Need some help from the bird hunters ..12ga.questions
- Thread starter bobcat93
- Start date
I'm a big believer in the "roaring-20s" (have 8 or 9 of em). I used to get beat up by 12 gauges but the correct ammo in a 20 will do wonders & make you leave the extra weight at home. My favorite 20 right now is my Franchi Affinity compact (I also own one in 12 & its for sale). I've taken deer, coons, turkeys, pheasants & even a coyote with it. My best "knock-around" gun is hands down my Benelli Nova 20, that one goes out & gets muddy on the boats. Its been for a bath in the Mississippi, shook out & kept on hunting.
Edit: One of my hunting partners uses nothing but a .410 for rabbits & squirrels.
Edit: One of my hunting partners uses nothing but a .410 for rabbits & squirrels.
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I grew up rabbit and bird hunting and have killed them with most all the shot gun gauges as well as pellet and 22 rifle and hand guns. A 12 gauge is as good as any with the right load. Also you can get 2 boxes of 12 gauge 1 1/8 oz shells for the price of one 20 gauge these days. This is the load that I suggest and if you can't find #6 shot get 7 1/2 shot. I would suggest you get a shot gun with screw in chokes and that way you can set up your gun for what your need at the time will be. PATTERN the gun with the shell you will be using to get the desired result at the yardage you expect will be common for you game.
It is a shame these days that most of the places I hunted as a kid are now filled with big fine homes in housing developments. Also in my area the coyotes have about wiped out the rabbits and birds as well as people cleaning up all the fence rows and brush and are not planting crop fields that made their habitat.
On Thanks Giving we had a family tradition that all the men and boys would go to my grandfathers farm early in the morning and turn a pack of beagles loose and rabbit hunt up to about dinner time and then go back to the house and have a big meal. Then we would go out and clean all the rabbits we had killed and divide them up so everybody got at least one to take home for a meal latter. Those were the days.
It is a shame these days that most of the places I hunted as a kid are now filled with big fine homes in housing developments. Also in my area the coyotes have about wiped out the rabbits and birds as well as people cleaning up all the fence rows and brush and are not planting crop fields that made their habitat.
On Thanks Giving we had a family tradition that all the men and boys would go to my grandfathers farm early in the morning and turn a pack of beagles loose and rabbit hunt up to about dinner time and then go back to the house and have a big meal. Then we would go out and clean all the rabbits we had killed and divide them up so everybody got at least one to take home for a meal latter. Those were the days.
rockhound78
Silver $$ Contributor
I grew up also using a 410 pump on rabbits and squirrels. Grandfather liked Win. Mod 12's, 12ga for quail. I ended up going to a SxS 12ga for quail, improved/modified choke and later acquired a Rem 870 for crows (big roost about 40 miles away), but used a single shot before that, to very good effect.
I would say a pump 12ga. as I think maybe they also make a 7/8th oz load which would work for hares, but I wouldn't also pass up a good SxS or O/U. Were a few times I wish I had a third shot, but not many.
I would say a pump 12ga. as I think maybe they also make a 7/8th oz load which would work for hares, but I wouldn't also pass up a good SxS or O/U. Were a few times I wish I had a third shot, but not many.
FELLOW LEFT HANDER HERE!!!
Where to start. First off, I would never consider a semi-auto. I know 'some people' say they won't spit burnt powder in your face. But I still have memories of my old 22lr semi auto spitting burnt powder in my face in the 70's...so I'll never own any gun that's a right handed semi. Do I have experience with right handed semi auto shotgun? No, but there are many other options available. You don't want to find out a right handed semi DOES spit burning/burnt powder in your face AFTER you've bought it.
As another poster has mentioned, the 20/12 debate is personal choice...and when you consider you can get 20 gauge shells with heavy loads, and 12's with light loads....it's not something to dwell on.
I would recommend a Remington 870 express (the cheap version of the 870) or a Mossberg 500. Both are relatively inexpensive guns. They are the type of guns you can take in the field and not worry about the finish and scratches and a little dirt. Both are tried and true designs. The Mossberg's safety is on TOP of the gun...no modifications needed for making it for a lefty. The Remington will require a reversal of the safety. I've seen videos on youtube where you can do it yourself. The stock measurements are a little different, so if you can go to a gun store and try them out, find the one that fits you better. The 870 is the best fitting shotgun I own.
I don't care about the empty shell flying across my face..if it's a pump. All the powder is burnt and gone. Nothing to burn your face or get in your eye. Not so with semi auto.
But here's the BIG bonus: Remington makes a left handed 870 Express!!!! The safety is for a left hander too. It's set up for interchangeable chokes. (It comes with Medium, but you'll have to buy others if you want them.) But here's the limitations (if you can even consider them limitations) 1) 12 gauge only 2) 28" barrel only....no 26"...3) no deer slug barrel. 28" ONLY Mine is in the picture below. If you're a left hander and you want a field gun that you don't have to worry about scratches and dirt with....get this gun. It's the last shotgun you'll ever need. (or at least that's what I keep telling myself! ha ha)
I also have a CZ O/U. I purchased this gun online. I made sure the stock measurements were the same as my 870...so that it would fit me. But it's just not the same. The drop of the comb is less, and therefore my eye is higher than where it should be. Now one advantage of the O/U is you can have two different chokes, and two different loads in the gun. This makes it the equivalent of two different guns. When I use my O/U for squirrel hunting, I have one barrel set up for close shots, and one for long shots. (close barrel has Imp choke and smaller load, long barrel has full choke and larger load.) This is a pretty cool feature.
I've never gotten along with side by side doubles. Just not my taste.
So in summary, I would say: Get yourself a left handed Remington 870 express...and a couple of different chokes. It's cheap, reliable, the safety is set up for a lefty. I own a few shotguns, but if I had to pick only one...this is easily my #1 pick.
Edit...I do remember now, some Ithica pumps are bottom ejectors. Don't know about the safety. (but I know they're more than twice the price of an 870 express)
2020-01-23_07-04-27 by John Doe, on Flickr
Where to start. First off, I would never consider a semi-auto. I know 'some people' say they won't spit burnt powder in your face. But I still have memories of my old 22lr semi auto spitting burnt powder in my face in the 70's...so I'll never own any gun that's a right handed semi. Do I have experience with right handed semi auto shotgun? No, but there are many other options available. You don't want to find out a right handed semi DOES spit burning/burnt powder in your face AFTER you've bought it.
As another poster has mentioned, the 20/12 debate is personal choice...and when you consider you can get 20 gauge shells with heavy loads, and 12's with light loads....it's not something to dwell on.
I would recommend a Remington 870 express (the cheap version of the 870) or a Mossberg 500. Both are relatively inexpensive guns. They are the type of guns you can take in the field and not worry about the finish and scratches and a little dirt. Both are tried and true designs. The Mossberg's safety is on TOP of the gun...no modifications needed for making it for a lefty. The Remington will require a reversal of the safety. I've seen videos on youtube where you can do it yourself. The stock measurements are a little different, so if you can go to a gun store and try them out, find the one that fits you better. The 870 is the best fitting shotgun I own.
I don't care about the empty shell flying across my face..if it's a pump. All the powder is burnt and gone. Nothing to burn your face or get in your eye. Not so with semi auto.
But here's the BIG bonus: Remington makes a left handed 870 Express!!!! The safety is for a left hander too. It's set up for interchangeable chokes. (It comes with Medium, but you'll have to buy others if you want them.) But here's the limitations (if you can even consider them limitations) 1) 12 gauge only 2) 28" barrel only....no 26"...3) no deer slug barrel. 28" ONLY Mine is in the picture below. If you're a left hander and you want a field gun that you don't have to worry about scratches and dirt with....get this gun. It's the last shotgun you'll ever need. (or at least that's what I keep telling myself! ha ha)
I also have a CZ O/U. I purchased this gun online. I made sure the stock measurements were the same as my 870...so that it would fit me. But it's just not the same. The drop of the comb is less, and therefore my eye is higher than where it should be. Now one advantage of the O/U is you can have two different chokes, and two different loads in the gun. This makes it the equivalent of two different guns. When I use my O/U for squirrel hunting, I have one barrel set up for close shots, and one for long shots. (close barrel has Imp choke and smaller load, long barrel has full choke and larger load.) This is a pretty cool feature.
I've never gotten along with side by side doubles. Just not my taste.
So in summary, I would say: Get yourself a left handed Remington 870 express...and a couple of different chokes. It's cheap, reliable, the safety is set up for a lefty. I own a few shotguns, but if I had to pick only one...this is easily my #1 pick.
Edit...I do remember now, some Ithica pumps are bottom ejectors. Don't know about the safety. (but I know they're more than twice the price of an 870 express)
2020-01-23_07-04-27 by John Doe, on Flickr
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As several have mentioned there are so many ammunition choices that it probably doesn't matter what gauge for rabbits and most birds, waterfowl being the exception.
It mainly comes down to the weight of the gun vs. the cost of the ammo and the felt recoil if shooting heavier loads.
Ithaca 37 is a fine pump that ejects out the bottom but the safety is in the trigger guard and will need to be reversed. No big deal but it might require a replacement. They are light and a 12ga doesn't weigh much more than most 20's.
Of course if you reload most of the disadvantages of each gauge disappear and you just acquired new hobbies like hull hoarding.
It mainly comes down to the weight of the gun vs. the cost of the ammo and the felt recoil if shooting heavier loads.
Ithaca 37 is a fine pump that ejects out the bottom but the safety is in the trigger guard and will need to be reversed. No big deal but it might require a replacement. They are light and a 12ga doesn't weigh much more than most 20's.
Of course if you reload most of the disadvantages of each gauge disappear and you just acquired new hobbies like hull hoarding.
Lol I am just starting my hull hording adventure since I just started reloading shotgun for skeet.... At least it's different , I have enough brass for pistol and rifle and it's easier to find a 12ga AA hull in the grass....
CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
I never owned a 20ga until three years ago. For pheasant hunting I used 12ga Rem 1100, Ruger OU, and a Browning SS which was my favorite. I decided to try a 20 OU for the compactness, quick handling, and light weight. Not knowing if I would be satisfied with a 20 I purchased a $425 Savage in case i was not pleased. No problem dropping the pheasants using 3in mags, and surprisingly little perceived recoil from such a light weight. Gave it to my son and purchased a nice Beretta!
Consider a light weight 20ga of the type which you like!
Consider a light weight 20ga of the type which you like!
With the cost of lead shot plus shipping these days I have given up loading shot shells for the most part. I still have some shot left over from days past if I need to replenish my stock of special hunting ammo. I can purchase 12 gauge shot shells cheaper than I can reload them for general target shooting. I have hand loaded more slug and buck shot ammo than anything in the past few years. I don't shoot shotgun's as much for hunting as I used to because the rabbits and birds have about disappeared in my area due to coyotes and land development for housing. I will do some squirrel hunting with the shotgun while the leaves are still on the trees but once the leaves thin out of drop the 22 rifle or T/C Contender 14" barrel 22 pistol or Ruger MKII comes out.
Where in general are you located? People are complaining about the lack of rabbits and groundhogs in Ohio because of coyotes. The older farmers have told me the groundhogs have REALLY disappeared over the last 20 years.
And I do the same method for hunting squirrels. Shotgun when the leaves are on the trees. Then it's either 22lr or 17hmr. Or I'll still use a shotgun if I'm still near some homes.
12 and 20 are the gold standard for shotguns, lots of guns and ammo to choose from, 410 and 28 are limited as far as ammo and it is more expensive, they are best left to guys that know what they are doing, especially when it comes to birds. A 12 ga shell will always hold more shot than a 20 of the same length, so if firepower is your thing 12ga is the ticket. I mostly shoot a 20ga O/U or M5 and I have never felt under gunned on small game.
Upper east Tennessee. Carter Co.
Wow..what a response..
Well I was able to pick up a beautiful like new 1975 rem 870 12ga from a forum member
The wood on this shot gun is almost to pretty..
It's very pretty..very basic..12ga..
It will get the job done for my intended purpose..
I'm very grateful to this gentleman for his generosity.
Its always nice to meet a forum member ..and talk well anything really..but it usually revolves around a good gun story...
Thank all..I am properly armed with all the information I required on this subject..many years in the out doors worth of knowledge on this forum.
Damn the internet is so cool,we can share our life experiences with one another....
I dont realy know how many people miss the fact..
Many of us here didnt have the internet as children or young adults for you old stinkers..haha
And when I sit in my cumfy chair with my cell phone..I literally have the world in my finger tips..
The smart phone is a wonderful device ( I choose to use as a valuable tool)..any question I may have any goofy odd ball idea I may have..I can find information or direction with the internet..
( yes yes..one needs to use the law of averages and apply it to information gathered on the net)..
But that is what is so magical about it..people from around the globe from all walks of life with completely different personalities and perspective can share there knowledge and thoughts..then we mentally filter and process our new found information and away we go....
...Now If society could remember follow the rules we learned in kindergarten..be honest..be kind..bla bla bla..the fundamentals of life most of our mothers tried to smack into us
We would be much farther ahead..hahaha..
Great response here..thank you ladies and gentlemen..
Keep safe
.keep healthy
Well I was able to pick up a beautiful like new 1975 rem 870 12ga from a forum member
The wood on this shot gun is almost to pretty..
It's very pretty..very basic..12ga..
It will get the job done for my intended purpose..
I'm very grateful to this gentleman for his generosity.
Its always nice to meet a forum member ..and talk well anything really..but it usually revolves around a good gun story...
Thank all..I am properly armed with all the information I required on this subject..many years in the out doors worth of knowledge on this forum.
Damn the internet is so cool,we can share our life experiences with one another....
I dont realy know how many people miss the fact..
Many of us here didnt have the internet as children or young adults for you old stinkers..haha
And when I sit in my cumfy chair with my cell phone..I literally have the world in my finger tips..
The smart phone is a wonderful device ( I choose to use as a valuable tool)..any question I may have any goofy odd ball idea I may have..I can find information or direction with the internet..
( yes yes..one needs to use the law of averages and apply it to information gathered on the net)..
But that is what is so magical about it..people from around the globe from all walks of life with completely different personalities and perspective can share there knowledge and thoughts..then we mentally filter and process our new found information and away we go....
...Now If society could remember follow the rules we learned in kindergarten..be honest..be kind..bla bla bla..the fundamentals of life most of our mothers tried to smack into us
We would be much farther ahead..hahaha..
Great response here..thank you ladies and gentlemen..
Keep safe
.keep healthy
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
The Rem 27 yard handicap gold box loads in 7 1/2 make great grouse loads.
redrockranger
Silver $$ Contributor
Light weight 20 ga. the Franchi AL 48 is a extremely lt wt gun. If they still make them.
Hello.
Forgive my ignorance as I'm new to the bird thing..I get 7 1/2..27yrd handy cap..does that mean to wait till birds are approx that distance away
Are these the ones you suggested..thank you
Attachments
27-yard line trap birds are 40 - 45 yards away when you shoot them, and on edge. It takes a big, fast load to break them consistently, and 7.5 is the largest legal shot size in trap.
I don't know what kind of birds you are talking about but if it is grouse I use 1 oz. loads of #6's, and at 1200 fps, not 1300. 7.5's tend to lodge in the meat whereas 6's tend to blow clean through. Fewer to bite on when eating, plus 6's kill better at longer ranges, if it comes to that.
Ok..now it makes sense..I'm a rifle guy and never shoot trap ..I've shot at Clay's from one of those flingers you yank the string to release..I didnt know theres rules....haha..I honestly appreciate all the insight and experience shared
So..I'm at camp..I miraculously have two birds for the fire..field dressed and cleand ready to cook on a cast iron skillet..
you guys..!!! you told me the gun.to use...you told me the ammo to use..
See my problem..game ready to eat..mouth watering
Now what????
Cough up the favorite (in the bush) recipe's bro's!..
What seasonings or yummy way to cook these suckers up( in the field)..this isn't Julia child's kitchen..guys..
My son and I tossed a 12x14 tent platform together this weekend..
One of the guys at work did a second floor addition, he let me take the old rafter material
.in sted of the fire ring..this lumber gives me a warm level flat surface to set up my tent and gear
.I had old paint to use up.so I dumped it in a 5 gal bucked..everything I had in the house..and some old latex paint I didnt care about color..its just to make the wood last a little longer and not soak in so much moisture..as this may turn into a garden storage shed..or eventually will be used for another project
On another note there were turkeys and grouse
All over..gobble gobbles and thump thump thump all weekend..
The thumping is crazy..its not so much you hear it but feel it..(that's grouse correct)
And the Turkeys..well I could kick them like a football there just walking all over..and calling to one another..pretty exciting
No more sleeping on the ground..I have 2" insulation board that goes on top of the plat form..then another layer of plywood ..then a tarp..then that brown or green carpet old people put on there porch..well I'm old now and I like out door carpet..hahaha..
Time to move to Florida..
That's what I'm up to ..back for more info..
So..I'm at camp..I miraculously have two birds for the fire..field dressed and cleand ready to cook on a cast iron skillet..
you guys..!!! you told me the gun.to use...you told me the ammo to use..
See my problem..game ready to eat..mouth watering
Now what????
Cough up the favorite (in the bush) recipe's bro's!..
What seasonings or yummy way to cook these suckers up( in the field)..this isn't Julia child's kitchen..guys..
My son and I tossed a 12x14 tent platform together this weekend..
One of the guys at work did a second floor addition, he let me take the old rafter material
.in sted of the fire ring..this lumber gives me a warm level flat surface to set up my tent and gear
.I had old paint to use up.so I dumped it in a 5 gal bucked..everything I had in the house..and some old latex paint I didnt care about color..its just to make the wood last a little longer and not soak in so much moisture..as this may turn into a garden storage shed..or eventually will be used for another project
On another note there were turkeys and grouse
All over..gobble gobbles and thump thump thump all weekend..
The thumping is crazy..its not so much you hear it but feel it..(that's grouse correct)
And the Turkeys..well I could kick them like a football there just walking all over..and calling to one another..pretty exciting
No more sleeping on the ground..I have 2" insulation board that goes on top of the plat form..then another layer of plywood ..then a tarp..then that brown or green carpet old people put on there porch..well I'm old now and I like out door carpet..hahaha..
Time to move to Florida..
That's what I'm up to ..back for more info..
Attachments
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Here is a pic of the little tent platform..I have a 10x10 eureka tent I purchased a few years ago..I love it
I use to put down a tarp then this screen blanket..its great ..when a storm kicks up this screen keeps the bottom of the tent separate from the tarp and really really really let's the water drain away from tent fast..this property is in the north country and when it storms..its no joke..its a magnificent force. And this tent has stood up very well and I have yet to go home with a wet floor..
I purchased this blanket off Amazon..it was developed for use in Vietnam as helo landing pads to keep the shit down where it belongs. I believe they are sold now as (sandless beach blankets)..if you think this method may be for you..
It's not backpacker friendly pretty heavy set up..
Where was I..tarp screen blanke . Then tent..then I cover the floor of the tent completely with moving blankets..then move in all gear..is it a pain in the ass..(you bet 100%)
Is it worth the extra money time weight hassle ( you bet 100% comfort).
After busting my ass trimming trees cutting grass clearing trails..a little comfort goes a long way..so does the little extra effort.
(That is what has made all the difference in my life. It has taken me years to understand but I would say over the last 10 yrs if develop a deeper understanding of my responsibilities to myself and loved ones.)
I know this post is all over the place but some of the information may be of some use to others
Some where along the line I was tought to take one more step, go the extra mile, ask myself did I do all I could do today? To the best of my ability? Was I kind or a dick to others or my pets..? Do I owe an apology ? Did I realy do all I could do ? Can I do better if I wake up. Then do it..I just ask my self a few questions before I fall asleep and try to go that little extra..if I was mean I need to apologize if I did something half assed I need to correct it before I proceed in life..with my day..I think it has made be a bit more alert at my impact on the world around me..like the ripples in a pond..everything we do or say impact those around us..(especially in nature) it's very easy to step back and look at what you have done for the day..what quality of life and person am I building here..yes..its worth it to take that one extra step..do that one more thing before I turn in..
And one more thing I keep in mind ( just personal head games I use to keep my self in check if you catch my drift)
I ask my self..if some one followed me around all day and recorded me from the moment I woke up to the moment I lay down.
Then the next day..every one who knows me .
We all gather to watch my video..would I be embarrassed or proud of how I lived my life..if you find you would feel embarrassed..its cool..just stop doing those things or acting that way..I'm not saying I do this every single night and spring right out of bed
Alot of days a just dont give a crap..its a good method for me to remember all living things should be treated with care kindness and respect hunting is no different..if your out for the kill..In life ..in business..in sex..in work..what ever..there is a lack of harmony and conflicts arise..
I prefer to be left in peace..I try to leave otheres to live there life the way they choose allowing the world around you to be a prosperous and fruitful and it will come back to you..
I'm done with my rambling
This is a hunting thread..but I dont draw a line..I try to be 100% the same man weather I'm in public church work at home with my family or in the field about to pull the trigger .
There is a very very fragile harmony of life here..I'm about 50 now and it's all coming together now more then ever..
If I was not humble or to bull headed to listen to the suggestion of others I would have missed this critical part of life..about being honest and true even when no one is around to see..because when I lay down at night ..I hate getting out of bed
I use to put down a tarp then this screen blanket..its great ..when a storm kicks up this screen keeps the bottom of the tent separate from the tarp and really really really let's the water drain away from tent fast..this property is in the north country and when it storms..its no joke..its a magnificent force. And this tent has stood up very well and I have yet to go home with a wet floor..
I purchased this blanket off Amazon..it was developed for use in Vietnam as helo landing pads to keep the shit down where it belongs. I believe they are sold now as (sandless beach blankets)..if you think this method may be for you..
It's not backpacker friendly pretty heavy set up..
Where was I..tarp screen blanke . Then tent..then I cover the floor of the tent completely with moving blankets..then move in all gear..is it a pain in the ass..(you bet 100%)
Is it worth the extra money time weight hassle ( you bet 100% comfort).
After busting my ass trimming trees cutting grass clearing trails..a little comfort goes a long way..so does the little extra effort.
(That is what has made all the difference in my life. It has taken me years to understand but I would say over the last 10 yrs if develop a deeper understanding of my responsibilities to myself and loved ones.)
I know this post is all over the place but some of the information may be of some use to others
Some where along the line I was tought to take one more step, go the extra mile, ask myself did I do all I could do today? To the best of my ability? Was I kind or a dick to others or my pets..? Do I owe an apology ? Did I realy do all I could do ? Can I do better if I wake up. Then do it..I just ask my self a few questions before I fall asleep and try to go that little extra..if I was mean I need to apologize if I did something half assed I need to correct it before I proceed in life..with my day..I think it has made be a bit more alert at my impact on the world around me..like the ripples in a pond..everything we do or say impact those around us..(especially in nature) it's very easy to step back and look at what you have done for the day..what quality of life and person am I building here..yes..its worth it to take that one extra step..do that one more thing before I turn in..
And one more thing I keep in mind ( just personal head games I use to keep my self in check if you catch my drift)
I ask my self..if some one followed me around all day and recorded me from the moment I woke up to the moment I lay down.
Then the next day..every one who knows me .
We all gather to watch my video..would I be embarrassed or proud of how I lived my life..if you find you would feel embarrassed..its cool..just stop doing those things or acting that way..I'm not saying I do this every single night and spring right out of bed
Alot of days a just dont give a crap..its a good method for me to remember all living things should be treated with care kindness and respect hunting is no different..if your out for the kill..In life ..in business..in sex..in work..what ever..there is a lack of harmony and conflicts arise..
I prefer to be left in peace..I try to leave otheres to live there life the way they choose allowing the world around you to be a prosperous and fruitful and it will come back to you..
I'm done with my rambling
This is a hunting thread..but I dont draw a line..I try to be 100% the same man weather I'm in public church work at home with my family or in the field about to pull the trigger .
There is a very very fragile harmony of life here..I'm about 50 now and it's all coming together now more then ever..
If I was not humble or to bull headed to listen to the suggestion of others I would have missed this critical part of life..about being honest and true even when no one is around to see..because when I lay down at night ..I hate getting out of bed
HTSmith
Silver $$ Contributor
You are all set! Don't get talked into heavy kicking loads--a standard 3 dram load with 1 1/8 oz of shot will do the trick and be the most economical. I'd go even lighter for targets.
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