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Need some advise

I have a Remington 700 ADL in .243 and it is bone stock. My groups at 200 yards stink. I am thinking of replacing the trigger. Is this the best place to start? Which brand and why? I am currently shooting Hornady superformance varmint loads. I know that reloading would be the way to go but not an option right now. I would like a better dual purpose round one for longrange varmint and deer hunting. I just bought a Savage model 40 .22hornet that will be doing the bulk of my groundhog hunting but there are some places that I hunt that 500 yards shots are possible and would take the .243. I know the ADL is not the best choice for this work but it is what I have for now. Does anyone know of a good gunsmith around Toledo Ohio to have the work done at. Any help would be great.

Thanks
Brian.
 
For a better trigger consider a Timney. Their Remington replacement trigger is reasonably priced, easy to install yourself and is adjustable down to one and a half pounds.
 
A great trigger is not going to make that rifle like factory ammo, you can get a reloading kit for about the same price as a good trigger, 3/8 size groups can be had with factory triggers. ed
 
Brian,

You haven't mentionned if you have tried other brands of factory ammo in the 243.
Like reloads, your rifle will tell you if it likes or doesn't like what you put in it.
Your factory trigger, an XmarkPro?
There are instructions available to you for tuning your trigger. Google 'remington trigger adjustment x mark'
Take time to shoot. It's better to practice lots. Improvements are usually measurable that way.

Cheers

Phil aka tazzman
 
groups are in the 4 inch range. What bullet weight would you guys reccommend. The gun will shoot clover leafs at 50 yards with the superformance. I am not a pro by any means but off a bench with a solid rest my savage 22 hornet is grouping half that size with factory ammo. The rifle was made in 1995 or 1996. I bought the gun as a high school graduation gift for myself and did not shoot it much until last year.
 
All of the factory Remington's I've had and helped fellow shooters with are improved by free floating the barrel. The Remington factory stocks contain two pressure points at the end of the forearm. Removing them is quite simple with sand paper and a dowel. Before removing them however, you can see if free floating will improve accuracy by placing a spacer under the recoil lug to raise the barrel slightly in stock to free float it. If you notice an improvement then you can permanantly remove the pressure points.

Remington triggers are fairly good for a factory rifle and can be adjusted to lighten the pull however this should be done by someone who knows what their doing so the rifle is safe. This will help you shoot better but won't improve the accuracy of the rifle. If I was going to spend money on upgrading the rifle the first thing I'd address is the bedding. This will paid the most dividends. You can purchase a Hogue pillar bedded stock for about $100 at Midway. I've used them and they work quite well or you can have a smith glass bed the action.

It's difficult to achieve varmint level accuracy (which I consider a 1/2 moa) consistently with factory ammo because it varies so much and is not tuned to your rifle. However, if your stuck with using factory ammo you need to try a few different brands to find one that works best.

The best all around bullet I've found for the 243 is the 85 grain Sierra boat tail hollow point. But with all compromises, there are better choices for varmint vs. deer.

One trick you might try is purchase a Limsaver barrel resonator. They only cost about $20. This allows you to adjust the harmonic of your barrel to each type of ammo. They do work but not always but for someone shooting factory ammo it worth trying.
 
There is an Ohio gunsmith named Jim Caudill who has done work for me and my family in the past. He is in the Columbus area, but well worth the drive. His prices used to be very affordable.

I used to hunt groundhogs just outside Bowling Green, Ohio when I went to school there. Lotsa wind in those bean fields. I was always leery of shooting the heavier weight bullets because I didn't want them skipping past my target and into the great beyond. If you reload, you may want to look at the 80 gr. Berger....from what I've seen them do to coyotes, I'm certain that they would work on deer and groundhogs...and, by the way, I shot a fat groundhog with that bullet in my favorite field last year with my .243 and the 80gr Berger....just under 400 yards, with plenty of gas for another hundred.

MQ1
 
I would not put a spacer under the recoil lug, whatever action /stock contact is there now will be significantly reduced, most likely only with the base of the lug and part of the front tang. I would remove the pressure pad and if necessary, build another pad later.
 
Yes it was new when I bought it. I will try the washer under the lug and see if it helps. I did sign up for the reloading class that Hornady is putting on at Camp Perry. Hope to get a press and start reloading soon. Thanks for all the info.
 
I would also NOT put a spacer under the lug. By doing so, you introduce 2 variables - free floating the barrel and worsen whatever bedding you started with. If you get unsatisfactory results you won't know which variable contributed to it.

I guess I'd opt for glass bedding and free float to start.
 
Do not put a washer under the lug, and I wouldn't waste a lot of time on changing ammo or reloading until the barrel was floated AND the action properly bedded, preferably pillar bedded. These days, there are a lot of shooters that did not have anyone to mentor them in the intricacies of getting a rifle to shoot to its potential, and using the internet has serious drawbacks. If you have shot with someone, or know of his reputation and have seen the targets, you have a much better chance of not being led astray. Unless I just happened to get lucky, and was completely satisfied with a rifles out of the box bedding (unlikely) I would never invest in an expensive series of ammo and/or load tests without correcting the factory bedding. Also, it is not a good idea to just float the barrel without bedding the action, because the fit of the action in the stock is not adequate fro best results, and for that reason it may shoot worse after floating. Factories do not have the budget to do a proper bedding job while remaining price competitive, so using up pressure on the barrel is a cheap "fix" that usually improves the performance of what would otherwise be an inadequate fit. There are some instances where a particular barrel will shoot better with up pressure, even with the action bedded, but there is no problem putting a pressure point back in the barrel channel to do this, after first floating and bedding. In order to do a proper bedding job, the barrel has to be floated first.

As others have said, the trigger can be adjusted, just understand that this needs to be done with proper respect for absolute safety. I have to tell you that I have actually known of fellows that would tell me that they were proud of the light pull that they had achieved but that they had to be careful of how they closed the bolt or handled the rifle! With a proper adjustment, you should be able to slam the bolt shut and bump the butt on the floor without any problems. For the best trigger, get a Jewel HVR.

What scope do you have on the rifle? Does it have a parallax adjustment? How is it supported while being shot? Are you able to have the cross hairs completely motionless on the target as you are firing? How do you hold the rifle? Do you have good follow through on a shot? Shooting from the bench, do you slowly add pressure to the trigger until the rifle surprises you when it goes off? These are all issues that I commonly see when I am at the range during "sighting in season". By fixiing some of these potential problems I have been able to cut down shooters group sizes dramatically. Another thing, the wind moves bullets roughly 16 times more at 200 yards than at 50. Do you have any way to see what the wind is doing while you are shooting?
 
I've done it many times, placing a spacer (plastic shim) just in front of the recoil lug just to test if free floating improves group size. (I did incorrectly state in my previous post to place it under the recoil lug, I meant in front - sorry). While you guys still may find this objectionable, I can only tell you that it worked for me and three of my fellow shooters. It was done only to determine potential for improvment before altering the factory stock. It was not used as a permanant alteration. After seeing improvement, the pressure points were removed and the groups sizes tightened significantly. Just recently did the same for another shooter with a 22 250 that wasn't grouping. Afterwards, with a factory stock, his groups reduce from approx. 1 1/4 to 1/2 inch after he removed those pressure points. All of these rifles had factory sythetic stocks with no bedding.

I have seven Remingtons, four model 700's and three model seven's that came with factory systheic stocks (no bedding). All of them shot significantly better after free floating the factory barrels. My friends also experienced the same improvement. I'm not asserting that this is a cure all or will work for every Remingtion, only that in can work and work quite well. It's inexpensive to try especially if you test first with the spacer.

This isn't some crazy idea I concocted, I read about it several years ago in a gun magazine in an article written by a riflesmith as a method to determine if free floating the barrel can improve accuracy without first altering the stock. I've used it and it works.
 
K22,
I guess that to a certain extent, I am old school. I grew up in the hobby doing my own work, adjusting triggers, floating barrels, and bedding actions, all with wood stocks. I have never purchased a tupperware stock, nor am I likely to, because they do not lend themselves to becoming the sort of finished project I expect to be able to produce. This is not to say that they cannot be part of a rifle that performs satisfactorily, depending on what your accuracy goals are. To illustrate this let me tell you about a strapping young building inspector that a friend of mine and I ran into at a local range. He was shooting a Remington 700 in 300 Ultra Mag, that was basically unmodified except for the addition of a decent scope and a bipod. He was shooting factory ammo. Having sheen that we were doing pretty well with our rifles, he asked us if we had any idea why his relatively new rifle's accuracy might have deteriorated. Instead of his usual 1 1/4" groups, he was shooting groups that had increased to around twice that. After asked about how he was cleaning the rifle, and looking in the muzzle and down the bore from the breech end I determined that it did not seem to be unusually dirty, so the next thing that I asked him about was if he had checked the action screws to see if they were tight. He didn't know that that was even something that needed to be done. He had never touched them, so I got out my Chapman screwdriver kit and found the correct Allen bit and checked the screws. They were loose, about a quarter turn, so based on experience and feel I tightened them to about the maximum that I thought that the stock ( a plastic one) could take, without problems. After that he shot another group, that I could hardly believe, shooting at a featureless orange aiming dot, that was about 8" in diameter, off the bipod, he shot a group that could almost be covered by a dime. I told him that he should save it because it might be the best that he ever shot with that rifle, so he retrieved it, and I measured it, and noted the size of the group the date and the rifle on the face of the target, an signed it as a witness. Some months later another friend, who was the assistant city manager of the same town, told me that the fellow had framed the target and that it was hanging on the wall behind his desk. The point of the story is that if someone had told me that that rifle, with that stock, factory ammo, shooting off a bipod, at that target, had shot that group, I would have thought that it was back of the gun shop BS. Accuracy is where you find it, and sometimes it comes from equipment that you would not believe would work.
 
Just a couple observations on this. I'm assuming that your 700 ADL is a sporter weight barrel and that you have like a 3-9 or 4-16 scope on it.

1. If you're shooting more than 3 shot groups with it, that sporter weight barrel is probably starting to scatter shots after 3 rounds. The first shot out of a cold fouled barrel is the most important, and the next 2 shouldn't be too far from it. That being said, for what you have, a 3" group at 200yds isn't unreasonable out of a rifle with a 5lb or more trigger, not pillar or action bedded etc etc.

2) Allow the rifle to cool out completely before you shoot your next group.

3) If you're really serious about taking up shooting, definately get into the reloading side of it.

Previously mentioned was Jim Caudill.... an excellent gunsmith in the Columbus area. Closer to you perhaps there is a fellow named Mark Penrod in the Ft. Wayne area who is also as good as they get. Both are really busy, but I'm sure if you talked to one or the other of them and set up a time to bring the rifle in they would spend some time with you on it. Send me a PM if you'd like their contact information and perhaps they'll know someone closer to you. WD
 
Perhaps the OP could tell us what kind of stock. I'm not sure how a spacer in front of the recoil lug raises the barrel, but I can see that it would place the back of the lug against the stock which is the only contact point with the stock that is desired. Be leery of "how-to" advice from gun rags, even Precision Shooting.....and also some gunsmith videos.
A friend bought a video on bedding and proceeded to epoxy bed the entire barrel channel as shown.....well needless to say his model 7 243 showed no improvement.
The most accurate factory rifle I ever owned was a 700 300 WM with a tupperware (plastic) stock. I restocked it in a Boyd's laminate (wanted an ADL ) bedded it, and it still was amazingly accurate....Go figure?
Built a 6 BR 700 for coyotes, and put a LVSF stock on, glass bedded it, and it also is darn near as accurate as by BR guns ( for first 3-4 shots ). Yet, theory says flexible,rubbery stocks won't allow accuracy.
 
The gun is a wood stocked sporter weight barrel with a Burris 4x12 AO. the shooting was done from a bench with a lead sled for a rest. trigger pressure was steady until the shot went off. I learned my lesson last spring with shooting more than 3 round at a time. When I shot the 200 yard group horizontal was ok it was vertical issues. I am still learning but don't know anyone close by that shoots long range. To teach my and or show me what I am doing wrong.
 
A friend of mine has a Lead Sled, and I looked it over, and advised him to not use it for any kind of serious accuracy work. For one thing, the windage top had play in it that made a secure hold impossible. Do you know anyone with a conventional front rest and rear bag that you could try? Let me mention a few other common mistakes. Sporter stocks do not do their best work when the front bag is out in the vicinity of the front sling mounting stud. I have seen clear improvement moving the front support so that it is no more than 3" in front of the action. The other mistake that I see is front and rear bags positioned so that the swivel studs are in a position where they would interfere with the rifle's motion on the bags as it recoils. It sounds like you have your trigger pull down. How is your follow through? I commonly see shooters come out of shooting position almost as the rifle is recoiling. Some of them pop their heads up and look down range as if they could see bullet holes at 100 or more yards with their unaided eyes. Another issue is the common misconception that holding the rifle very lightly is the proper way to shoot groups. I think that reading about shooting benchrest rifles free recoil has spawned this. What shooters may not understand is that this is a technique that requires specific attributes of rifle stock design, balance, recoil to rifle weight relationship, and rest design that are not present in their typical setup. I can really identify with not having anyone to show you the ropes. In my experience, most of us are in the same boat. About the only thing that I can to suggest to help this is that you try different approaches to see if they improve your results. For instance, I have one light .222 that does not do its best work from the bench unless it is held down at the center with so much force that I am just short of muscle tremors. Shot that way, I have gotten groups in the high .2s to low mid .3s. I suspect that it really doesn't like the solid support of sand bags. In the field, it does a stellar job. As far as having to shoot a benchrest rifle free recoil or with a light hold goes, I have been able to shoot groups in the low .2s holding mine, with both hands, like one might hold a light 7 mag. Just remember to try different variations of hold, and to replicate the feel for each shot. Back in the day when I had almost no equipment, I has just as much fun learning my first lessons about how my rifle shot best, as I do with a lot of very good equipment today. Good luck with your effort. Let us know if you make any breakthroughs.
 
I also am NOT a fan of lead sleds. For one thing ,when you think how a small change in hold changes bullet impact and group size when using the proper 2 piece BR style rests, you can appreciate how much different the bullet impact will be using a lead sled. Remember the bullet is still in the barrel in the first stages of recoil. I would also advise to use some type of wind indicators, such as survey ribbons, placed along the flight path.
 

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