Need scope/ring advice for 1000 yd rifle

[skiutah02]

Yesterday was my 1st 1000yd match. Been working up to the experience all winter. It was fun, educational and a little bit aggravating from an equipment perspective. Here is my problem which I need some advice on how best to solve. Note: a new/better scope and/or rifle are not options at this point.

For Christmas I ordered a new Savage FTR in 308, added a Nightforce 20 MOA rail with a Vortex PST 6x24 SFP. The scope is in a Burris PEPR mount (this will probably need to change and where I need your help) that I thought would be useful moving it from rifle to rifle. In the end I purchased a second Vortex PST . While working up to the 1000 yd range, I have been very happy up to 880 yds. Then the match....

I worked up two loads during the winter that I thought would do well out to 1000 yds (at least by calculation). The first is 155 SMK Palmas going 3020 fps at the muzzle (magnetospeed) and the second is a 178 AMAX (2816 fps). One week before the 1000 yd match I was able to try 880 yds and the 155s needed 20 MOA up from my 100 yd zero to get there. The 178s needed 24 MOA. I had 35-36 MOA in the scope from my 100 yd zero before I hit the mechanical limit, so I knew that the 1000 yd comeup would be close.

Match Time

For the first string of fire I chose the 178s as my load for the day because of the windy conditions. Unlimited sighters (luckily) showed that I needed 39 MOA to reach 1000 (crap). Tried shooting with scope pegged (I know this is not good but it was the heat of battle) and using reticle for the additional comeups to aim. Because I was at the extreme of my scope, the windage was limited and either did not track reliably or the wind was actually blowing me around the target (probably a little of both). In the end, I turned down the elevation 2 MOA and used the (somewhat) crosshair 5 MOA mark in the reticle (worked OK) but for windage I had to aim between my target and the neighbors at times to get near my X ring. Did I mention the wind???

For strings 2 and 3 I switched to the 155 load which I knew shot flatter. I needed 35.5 MOA which put me right near the top of my scopes elevation again and limited my windage. The scopes returned to my 100 yd zero perfectly (tested this today) and work exceedingly well for me up to 1000. I would like to find the best solution that does not 1) costs and arm and a leg 2) does not put the rifle out of commission for weeks (another MidRange match soon).

I thought that I would just get a Nightforce 30 or 40 MOA base and be done, but they apparently are not made. I think that I could swap out my PEPR mount for rings that have cant to them, but do not have the experience to know which ones to use. Can you help me?

I appreciate any good advice. I am new to this sport, so be gentle.
Drew

 

[jghoghunter]

Order some burris signature zee rings with the inserts and put the +10 in the back and the -10 in the front and then you should have between your 20 moa rail and the inserts CLOSE to 40 moa of cant in the scope.
The rings at +10 and -10 are not measured in moa. That should get you close and you will be able to use your scope adjustment for the rest of it.
That same combo and a NF would get my 308 out to about 1300 yds on prairie dogs.

 

[jonbearman]

Get the Burris posi align signature rings(with plastic insert) and get an additional set of 20 moa inserts or maybe the 10 moa would be enough.The rings with the plastic will hold that scope solid.They are not some cheapo set of rings and wont leave marks on the scope if you should ever sell it. I would think the mediums or tall should work out real well. I believe you have a 30mm main tube and the signature 30mm's come with 2 sets of inserts so you should be good.They have good instructions on how to use these rings and that isn't explanatory enough,go to burris.com and look at the tutorial on how to set them up.I have them on most of my guns and love them.

 

[skiutah02]

Get the Burris posi align signature rings(with plastic insert) and get an additional set of 20 moa inserts or maybe the 10 moa would be enough.The rings with the plastic will hold that scope solid.They are not some cheapo set of rings and wont leave marks on the scope if you should ever sell it. I would think the mediums or tall should work out real well. I believe you have a 30mm main tube and the signature 30mm's come with 2 sets of inserts so you should be good.They have good instructions on how to use these rings and that isn't explanatory enough,go to burris.com and look at the tutorial on how to set them up.I have them on most of my guns and love them.

Thanks to both of your fast responses. Is there a difference between the zee rings and the posi-align rings that are being suggested? Is there a way to determine whether medium or tall would work without trial and error? Yes, tube is 30 mm.

Drew

 

[jghoghunter]

Signature rings are the posi align. Zee means they mount on the weaver style mounts or rails. I believe burris website shows you how to take the measurements to determine the right hight. Unless they changed they don't make the +/- 20 inserts in the 30mm. They only made that in the 1". They are not listing them in the Brownells catalog either.

 

[skiutah02]

Signature rings are the posi align. Zee means they mount on the weaver style mounts or rails. I believe burris website shows you how to take the measurements to determine the right hight. Unless they changed they don't make the +/- 20 inserts in the 30mm. They only made that in the 1". They are not listing them in the Brownells catalog either.

OK just ordered from Midway....done and done.

 

[stool]

using a 308 at 1000 yds is not fun it is punishment.
i shoot a 208 a max at close to 3000 fps.....with a 300 win mag....
do you see the disadvantage you have with a 308 win ??
and then scope choice...hmmmm
i use a 8.5-25 30mm tube luepold in a 20 moa base and burris signature rings....yes the 30's only come in plus or minus 5 which is 10 total....and i have a bulseyepro magnifier making the scope more like a 32x.....
600 yd matches ok..but 1000 ...ouch

 

[dragman]

Signature rings are the posi align. Zee means they mount on the weaver style mounts or rails. I believe burris website shows you how to take the measurements to determine the right hight. Unless they changed they don't make the +/- 20 inserts in the 30mm. They only made that in the 1". They are not listing them in the Brownells catalog either.

You are 100% correct and this is the ring I would definatly recommend for his application

 

[ebb]

I think, if I remember correctly my remington has a 40 moa rail. I am not sure why cause the 7RUM doesn't need 35 MOA to get there. I agree with the other post the sig Zee rings are tops. they aren't tacticool but they work. with the night force 40 Moa rail and the inserts in the Zee rings you have lots of options

 

[seymour fish]

or just slap a Ken Farrell 30 moa rail on it and be done

 

[skiutah02]

using a 308 at 1000 yds is not fun it is punishment.
i shoot a 208 a max at close to 3000 fps.....with a 300 win mag....
do you see the disadvantage you have with a 308 win ??
and then scope choice...hmmmm
i use a 8.5-25 30mm tube luepold in a 20 moa base and burris signature rings....yes the 30's only come in plus or minus 5 which is 10 total....and i have a bulseyepro magnifier making the scope more like a 32x.....
600 yd matches ok..but 1000 ...ouch

In F/TR only 223 or 308 are options, so I'm (happily) stuck. It is fun, but I've got alot to learn.

 

[stool]

awwww..you did not mention ftr till now..you just said 1000 yd.......
you have fun lobbing them down there.

using a 308 at 1000 yds is not fun it is punishment.
i shoot a 208 a max at close to 3000 fps.....with a 300 win mag....
do you see the disadvantage you have with a 308 win ??
and then scope choice...hmmmm
i use a 8.5-25 30mm tube luepold in a 20 moa base and burris signature rings....yes the 30's only come in plus or minus 5 which is 10 total....and i have a bulseyepro magnifier making the scope more like a 32x.....
600 yd matches ok..but 1000 ...ouch

In F/TR only 223 or 308 are options, so I'm (happily) stuck. It is fun, but I've got alot to learn.

 

[letronshootit]

+1 on Signature Rings, no ring marks either!

 

[CatShooter]

"....yes the 30's only come in plus or minus 5 which is 10 total..."

Burris deoes not make a 5 in 30mm size - there is only 10's available in 30mm size.

The 1" rings have 5, 10, and 20's available.

 

[seymour fish]

So , as previously stated, the plus 10/ minus 10 thing will not equate to MOA NECESSARILY, ring spacing coming into it, etc. spend the $$ for the burris---you are playing roulette. Maybe you will get lucky, maybe you will ALMOST have enough elevation. Likely will be topped out on the elevation knob where clicks may not be accurate. (best bag the system and watch crosshair movement the last half a revolution of 'up's" to see if still movement). So IMHO you will have half-azzed the deal. Nothing against the rings--use them--hold zero--work great, but .....

 

[skiutah02]

FYI. As suggested, the Burris Zee Rings arrived today, and I installed them. Went to range to zero scope and see what's what. As some mentioned the 30 mm rings come with +-10 inserts. I used them to gain vertical in scope and better center for windage. My Vortex PST is advertized with 65 MOA each for both elevation and windage, and even with a 20 MOA rail only had about 35 MOA in elevation from 100 yd zero. Worse, I had 42 MOA right windage and 17 left. After adding the rings and trying to better center for windage while gaining elevation the verdict....

Added (at least) 7 MOA to elevation (do not want to max out) and was able to gain 4 MOA for windage left. This should get me to 1000 with my 178 AMAX load without using the reticule for elevation. We'll see in a few weeks...Thanks to everyone who weighed in.

Drew

 

[bozo699]

using a 308 at 1000 yds is not fun it is punishment.
i shoot a 208 a max at close to 3000 fps.....with a 300 win mag....
do you see the disadvantage you have with a 308 win ??
and then scope choice...hmmmm
i use a 8.5-25 30mm tube luepold in a 20 moa base and burris signature rings....yes the 30's only come in plus or minus 5 which is 10 total....and i have a bulseyepro magnifier making the scope more like a 32x.....
600 yd matches ok..but 1000 ...ouch

WOW!!!
Wayne.